That would be a fun idea. :yes:

Yes, that would probably work, where if they made it to have your creature summoned, it would drain your amount of magicka over time.

I did mean for the fourth question to pertain to your conjuration lvl not your lvl, lvl. I will fix.

I found the "One creature only" thing in oblivion really darn annoying. I hope they've done away with that. And of course higher leveled creatures should be restricted to a high level of conjuration

I think the higher ur conjuration skill the more "summoning points" u shuld be able to get. or i guess u culd say threshhold of energy you culd summon. not saying this is how i want it. so imagine u have a conjuration skill of 75. u get 300 of these so called points or w/e. now a Dremora may cost u 200 to summon. while a scamp might run u about 50. u culd try to summon more. but u wuld find urself out of points. there shuld be a limit of some sort based on how powerful u r. now rats shuld be like 5 points. dremora shuld be harder to summon because in the lore they are harder to control when summoned. not saying i want that system used exactly that way but its a basic idea of wut i mean.

I'm liking your idea. That way it would keep it fair. Because at least you'd be able to summon like a rat and a scamp and maybe an ancestral ghost or two. But like you say, a dremora would cost 200 or so points out of 300 or whatever. That way you could have a couple lowly scamps out too with your dremora and not feel like its just one creature summoned. That system would work well, I think. Or something similar.

Sustained magicka drain, so that there would be a limit to how many creatures could be summoned at a time. Once your magicka reaches zero, summoned creatures start dissappearing. Otherwise no limits (apart from maybe requiring a conjuration level to cast the spell at all).

I used the same summoning tactics as the op in Morrowind. Had a great time creating custom spell combination's for my summons. I would have different sets for minor, medium and powerful undead/daedra. Personally I was quite underwhelmed with Oblivion's take on conjuration, just one creature that usually bucked the kicket after only a few hits wasn't too exciting in my opinion.

I was a happy camper once a found a modification to allow up to eight creatures at a time though. But even then the spell-making system didn't allow combination's of creatures within the same spell. The time alloted for powerful creatures(spider daedra, dremora valkynaz etc.) was very low too. They just couldnt get much done when the game mechanics didnt let you call them up for longer than ten or fifteen seconds.

All in all, since they're revisiting the enchant skill I have faith that Todd and the crew will give us back a robust spell-making system to allow for more customization to our conjured hordes. :mage:

other,other,other, and summoned creature depends on skill.

lets explain, oblivion summoning svcked balls, morrowind was not that much better either! what should happen is summoning that depends on creature strength/number rather than lame time limit.

example, you are a novice summoner so you can summon a fire elemental, he stays until he dies or gets un-summoned, but if you choose the necromancer perk, you will be able to summon 4 skeletons, two warriors two archers, but you won't be able to summon 4 fire elementals yet until you become a master summoner.

all in all there should be a summon limit DEPENDING on creature type and maybe some perk modifications.

More than 1, the amount having a cap of 5 and depending on your level, and I think the time should vary between spell.

My idea revolves around magicka not regen'ing, also like in Morrowind. They were forced to make summoning (and most of magic in general) kinda weak due to the implementation of regenerative magicka, for balancing reasons. With non regenerative magicka you have to think twice before using it, but you get more power out of it. Keep in mind they also have to find a balance on leveling; balance for the true role player or balance for the uber trainer constantly casting cheap spells for no reason.

With the three bar split on all the bars, you would have magicka you could restore by absorb and potions, but each time you cast a spell the non restorable part would increase, putting a limit on how much you could cast in a day, forcing you to sleep. Combined with more costly spells (or spell effects, if those are granted by magic skill perks) train more than casting cheap spells, I think you could balance out the ridiculousness of power training we have had since Daggerfall.

I.e. casting Light at low levels is weak and not very durable, but does aid you in leveling. At higher levels Light is powerful and durable, but is now second nature and doesn't improve training anything.

With that in mind, here is how I think of Conjuration. If each skill has 5 perks, various spell effects are available at each perk (that's 5 perks for the conjurer, 25/30 perks for the full mage (knows every spell effect in the book), and 90 perks in total for the 18 skills. Perks for Conjuration:
1. Bound Items.
2. Beastiary.
3. Undead.
x. Possible expansion - Double summon.
4. Dremora.
x. Possible expansion - Summon companion.
5. Daedra.
x. Possible expansion - Summon double companion.

Oh, forgot. It also suggests the system let you have two additional slots. What you fill those slots up with is players choice and sacrifice:
1. 0 Slots. Only player.
2. 1 Slot. Player and cart.
3. 1 Slot. Player and horse.
4. 2 Slots. Player and cart and horse.
5. 1 Slot. Player and companion.
6. 2 Slots. Player and two companions.
7. 2 Slots. Player and horse and companion.

A normal summon affects only time it sticks around, and what we have today is good enough at starter level. But when you're at high level casting a low level summon effect, it lasts longer. They will always follow you around and you have no control over them, just as now. Casting daedra summons at high level, provides more bang for the buck, but they only stick around same amount as summon beastiary did at low level.

Bound items at minimum skill required: 30 - 60 seconds.
Bound items at maximum skill possible: 240-300 seconds.
Daedra at minimum skill required (which is a lot): 30 - 60 seconds.

Summoning companion will be so expensive in magicka (no regen) that daedra will never be possible, and dremora will most likely require Atronach birthsign (150% magicka, but stunted magicka, just as bad news as it was in Morrowind). A summoned companion will automatically dispell if you sleep or is knocked out since you cannot focus your thoughts on keeping him here. Very powerful, but has a high cost, especially considering such a high level spell will considerably increase your "permanent magicka damage" (the one you cannot restore via potions, only sleep).

I also think summoned creatures should be immune to soul trap, to avoid the all too easy summon-trap-summon-trap-summon-trap training exploit.

Having a summoned creature as a companion makes you a loner though. You have to hide him outside cities, be denied fast travel services (fast travel will be forced to be on foot), and people will generally hate you for dragging them around.

Well, those were my thoughts on an improved system. Goes a little deeper than "simply increase" without thought on balance.

So if you can live with sacrifice (needed for balance), you get to be quite powerful with two summoned companions and two normal summons. But you have now increased the magicka drain so much you have a hard time doing much more with magic (can't be restored without sleep).

I'd have new summon spells replace existing summons, but I'd allow spells to be designed to have multiple summon effects. So I cast summon zombie twice, I only have one zombie. I design a spell with summon zombie, summon zombie, summon skeleton. I get 2 zombies and a skeleton, though it would likely cost a crap ton of magika.

It would be neat if you could have a swarm of ghosts like in the first god of war. But that presents obvious challenges.

I would have too agree with you.

Dont use Conjuration but curious so I checked this out bliviongate:

OK. Thanks anyway.

I think you should be able to produce multiple summons but the max would be dependent on level and the power of the creature.

Say your at max level.

You use a multiple zombie spell.

You summon 4-5 zombies to do your bidding.(OPsed probably but this is an example)
But if you were to summon a wraith or a flame atronarch it could only reach 2 at max level.
And you can only ever summon one storm atronarch. But if you combine these spells you could have 2 zombies and a storm atronarch. At max level.



There would be a tier mechanic say a SA(storm atronarch) equaled 3 skeletons.
Lets say the max summon of the weakest creature(skeleton?) is 6
You summon an atronarch and that takes up those 3"skeleton" slots and now you have 3 left.
You use a flame atronarch summon that takes up 2 "skeleton" slots. Leaving you with one more slot.
This you use for a skeleton.

I would like a monster tier kind of system like this. Not the exact numbers or equivalent summon exchange power but a rough idea of what I'm talking about.

I'd like to see the player be able to summon more permanent companions, where they exist until they die or are summoned by the player. It could even act as a sustained power that takes up a portion of the players overall mana for as long as the monster is summoned. I'm really hoping for some improvements to the summoning conjuration system.

I'd like to be able to summon as many as my magicka can handle.
Level should limit you in someway, but I have no comment on it.
I'd like to have the summons last permanently, but consume magicka as they persist. So 1 skeleton might consume 2 magicka per second, 2 skeletons would be 4, etc.
The amount of magicka consumed per second would change based on the summon and maybe skill level.

It would also be nice to be able to give your summon items to make them more effective in battle, but it would be fixed so that you cannot exploit this to get free items and your items should come back, or are with your next summon.

I think this would allow conjuration to be powerful, but it would be a sacrifice because your magicka regeneration would be hindered. If you summoned too many your magicka would be overwhelmed, reach 0 and they would all disappear. It may be even more effective because you couldn't empty your magicka supply or all of your summons disappear.

Well, on max difficulty level even one creature to summon was overpowered (you could summon daedroth on lvl 6-7) and you want even more creatures?
I picked "no" option,it will be too overpowered.

I like the idea of the total number of creatures you can summon being limited based on rank. I don't think that being able to summon an unlimited amount of creatures is a good idea.

Something to consider is a system where you have to "maintain" your summons by sacrificing some portion of your max Magicka for as long as the summon exists. When the summon is killed or dispelled, you regain the Magicka. This would let you keep summons indefinitely, as long as you're willing to give up some amount of Magicka (more for stronger summons, less for weaker ones). It's a good way to avoid artificial limitations on the amount of time a summon exists. At Master rank in conjuration, maybe you could pick a perk to halve the amount of Magicka each summon takes up.