We are talking about skin tone. So yes, the ARE black. Maybe they're not homo sapiens, but their skin is dark (as it is the skin of a lot of people in the Earth). The same could be said about Nords, who are fair skinned (as a lot of people in the Earth), and the same with Imperials and Bretons...

Edit: ahh, I see they've been that way in past games.

In addition, look to Arena, Daggerfall of Morrowind (http://images.uesp.net//0/04/Img-race-Redguard.jpg).

I've made a white-skinned redguard for the race benefits before.. although his body and hands stay orange lol.

The skin colour issues are probably the biggest problem in Oblivion's customisation. If you tint the skin even slightly it looks [censored] awful 90% of the time. Also, the body never matches the face colour.. I understand the concept of tan lines but they've taken it a step too far.

My point stands. Read back through the thread and see how many posts aren't referring simply to skin tone, but are injecting the nonsense and idiocy surrounding "race" with which we humans continue to labor. See how much hostility that's already generated and envision where this thread could well end up going.

Yes - there's an issue with skin tones, but that's across the board. Pale Bretons and Nords who aren't "pale," but stark, shining white. Orcs with purple lips. Argonians who are green and red or.... green and red. Or green and red. And so on.

They're completely redoing facegen. There's no telling how it will work out, but it's safe to assume that they'll at least eliminate the more obvious problems with Oblivion's. And they'll undoubtedly introduce some new ones. And that's pretty much that. I judged it hardly fit for comment, as opposed to the issue of "race" in the game and the way in which the resemblance of Redguards to the homo sapiens referred to as "blacks" fans the flames of an issue that only serves to make me detest the shallowness of my fellow humans, as evidenced by some of the posts already made in the thread, and that's the aspect of it upon which I chose to comment.

As I pointed out, every iteration of the Redguards have been shades of dark brown, save for Oblivion (not sure about Battlespire). Don't believe me? I suggest you download Arena and Daggerfall (both of which are free), watch some redguard playthroughs on Youtube, and get a hold of Morrowind. But, here are some pictures to get some idea beforehand.
http://images.uesp.net//a/ae/AR-Race-Redguard_Male.jpg
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/196/kimboh.png
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Redguard:Characters
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-npc-Wayn.jpg
http://images.uesp.net//0/04/Img-race-Redguard.jpg

Also, a few character creation description refer to them as being "dark", not "red."

Here it goes again. Not all Africans look like that.

I should know. I was born there

As for Redguards I think the race as a whole kinda got ignored. The hair isnt even right. Maybe BGS will change it according to the lore but I doubt it

Yes. And Imperials are not Romans. Nords are not Scandinavian.

I still don't see how anyone could think the guy behind the bar is a nord, he's a redguard through and through, I'm sure of it. Just look at my last post, there is a higher res version of the pic.

i don't see no bling on the guy at all

there's a screenshot of a bar and in the background you can see a redguard and he very much looks like a legit black man

Lighten up! (lol)

Seriously though, thanks for the sombre lesson in political correctness, but I believe that as soon as we lose sight of humour in any sphere of our society - be it religion, race, whatever - we are in actuality undermining any well intentioned attempt at equality that might have been initiated.

definitely not a nord. look at the woman to his right, they're in the same lighting and he's waaaaay darker. even if he was in darker lighting, I don't look black when I stand in the shade.

Then as you apparently are so knowledgeable, please do explain to me what a Redguard is without using any Earthly references.

Because we as humans can only draw off familiar references, for all intents and purposes in explaining what a Redguard is, they are black people. The black people of Nirn.

@ GriffCannon90: Because something doesnt yhappen in real life doesnt mean it cant happen, be it intended or programming mistake, in a game? Fallacy.

Somehow, I doubt it, considering that they weren't nearly as red in past games, http://images.uesp.net//4/49/MW-NPCs-Gentleman_Jim_Stacey.jpg, for example, doesn't look red to me, http://images.uesp.net/a/ac/MW-npc-Manicky.jpg. They certainly look like they were going for black, and I'm pretty sure their voice actors are black, so logic says that's what their supposed to be, and the skin color in Oblivion is a result of the discoloration characters sometimes suffer from and not a conscious design choice.



And yet said planet is populated by people who very much look like Homo sapiens, and talk like them, and behave like them, they even have cultures that are similar to humans on Earth, and they've been called both humas and men, things we call ourselves. If you don't want people associating your fictional races with real life ones, then don't make them resemble real life races. Since Bethesda chose to make Redguards, and really, all the human races in the Elder Scrolls resemble real life races, people are going to associate them with those races.

And really, that has nothing to do with anything, just because they're a fantasy race doesn't mean they don't resemble a real life one, it's clear that they DO, and if Bethesda intends their fantasy race to resemble a real life race, which they obviously did in this case, they will be expected to make them resemble their real life counterparts, to the extent that they're not explicitly stated to be different, so giving Imperials green skin, for example, would probably be pretty strange.



No, but they certainly strongly resemble them, just as Cyrodiil is not any place on Earth but shows environments which bear striking resemblances to ones that exist in real life. Certainly, they're not identical in every way to their real life counterparts, they're a fictional race that is similar to a real life one, so they can be different in some ways if the lore says they are, but to deny the similarities is simply foolish.

And back on the subject, the images we've so far seen of characters are all considerably improved from Oblivion, and while none of these show characters who are not Nords or possibly Imperials except in the background where we can't clearly make out the details, thus rendering them rather unhelpful, we can assume that if Bethesda can make Nords look good, they can do so for other races too, and it was said in the podcast that Bethesda is paying attention to making all the races look good and more distinct, so if Bethesda delivers what's promised, then I think we won't be seeing orange Redguards anymore.

today Trayvon asked me if i wanted some grits.

i said no.

Haha that was my point. I was being sarcastic. I just find it funny how people all of a sudden try to argue against obvious things like Redgaurds being based largely off real world "blacks."

You'll never see anyone on this board say that Imperials and Nords are not "white," however. Stuff like that usually derails Redgaurd threads... plus the usual jokes about cornbread, grits and the like. *Note the above*

As for your point I just hope the devs actaully give Redgaurds the correct hair. Im tired of either having a fro or looking like I put a conk in his hair

The woman on the right is in a more lit place, and the shadow on the back of her neck is the same color as the guy in the back. I cannot see brown skin on the guy. I see a nord, with stubble, in a darker part of the bar.

Can we get a dev to confirm what race this guy is already? Seriously, the guy looks like the guy from Highlander during medieval Scottland, only more bulky.

There are a good number of white africans. In the same sence that not all europeans are white

Well that is obvious but my point was simply that not all black Africans look like Wesley Snipes. This turned into a thread about whether or not Redgaurds were even modeled after blacks so I figured Id interject. Really the OP was just asking for Redguards that match the lore. In Oblivion the devs didnt even bother to give them their famous wiry hair in many cases, so I dont think its too much to ask to give Redguards hair that doesnt make em look like MJ

That is just not fair. There is no way that anyone will ever out African Djimon, that boy black as a mother******.

Agreed, but Morrowind over did it and Oblivion under did it. So a blend of both would be perfect.

Overdoit? Under do it?

Explain

Alright.

In MW I actually got horrified of how dark brown the Redguards were, I was used to OBs Redguards see. Then I played OB and got horrified of how pale and totally different they were from MW. So if the two colors were to be mixed in one pot, 50-50 of both, I think it would be the perfect redguard basic-skin tone. It was just too much in MW and wasn't there at all in OB, if you know what I'm saying.

I LOLd hard. And people thought I was wrong when I said that BGS would be foolish to set TES in Hammerfell

I dont really know whats scary about either. The Redgaurds in Oblivion are not that pale. Ive seen tons of people with that complexion. The Redguards in Morrowind were really not that dark either.

This is an interesting phobia you have