Concerns about the PC version

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:36 pm

My biggest requests for the PC version would be in interface design, really.

A move away from the tabbed based system of Oblivion and Fallout3 would be nice. It makes perfect sense with the L and R buttons of a controller, but not so much when using a mouse, and makes finding things more time consuming than is really necessary. This also applies to the list of player's items (which is really the only practical way with a controller), but isn't nearly as convenient to navigate with a mouse as the classic morrowind style icons. (from a sentimental perspective, icons are just nicer, too).

Scale the UI to resolutions properly. Most PC players will be viewing the game from a fairly short distance, and running at a pretty high resolution. There isn't really the same need to make sure everything is readable from 8' away, or on a low-resolution CRT television, like with the console versions. If they do have to go with a list system for items, it would also mean you get more than a half-dozen on screen at once.

Logical hotkeys for sections of the inventory. 'M' for the map would be the obvious candidate.


Hopefully these could avoid that feeling that, when playing Oblivion and Fallout3, I was using an interface where another controller and format had taken design priority.
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Dean
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:14 pm

New Vegas was the first Bethesda game I didn't purchase multiple copies of, and in fact returned the initial purchase because of the inclusion of Steam. If it is in TESV I won't even bother.

I would love to see gamesas follow CD Projekt Red's lead with The Witcher 2 and return to their roots of no DRM at all. As mentioned above it is only the honest gamers that are hurt.


*Actually I only bought one copy of Fallout: NV as well, but I bought two FO:3 [Launch and GOTY] and I bought 5 copies of Oblivion [360, PS3... then I got sick of the console version's lack of content and bought my first gaming PC so I got the Original, then NotN and SI when I found them in the clearance bin. Because on wear and tear on the discs I bought a GOTY copy for backup... Then Steam had Oblivion GOTY Deluxe for $6.79 so I bought that too]...

...having it on Steam from the get-go is going to save me so much money, I only need that one copy.

**Steam doesn't hurt that much. I can't remember the last time Steam has asked me for my passwords. I have a gaming laptop and demand portability of games without an internet connection, I've abandoned Ubisoft... but for the most part gamers are tied a stationary, always tied to the internet desktops that shouldn't have an issue connecting to Steam. If your internet is slow or limited then buy the retail version and use the disc for installs.
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Marie Maillos
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:10 am

1) A poll on this forum wouldn't provide anywhere near a representative figure of what their overall fanbase wants, and Bethesda would ignore it.

Really?

I think admin and mods disagree with you - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1148500-does-bethesda-listen-to-the-community/page__view__findpost__p__16790258.

So I'm hitting polls and I see there are already a couple up on just my suggestion.

As for STEAM every charging fees - I don't consider myself paranoid - more pessimistic. The nature of greed and monopoly.
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TWITTER.COM
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:24 pm

Really?

I think admin and mods disagree with you - http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1148500-does-bethesda-listen-to-the-community/page__view__findpost__p__16790258.

Agreement here, and in fact if we post something worthwhile or truly worthy, the moderators forward that to the correct group inside Bethseda - where it is read BY the developers.

I would argue that these forums are the Best mechanism for sharing ideas and bug reports, over any other site if you want them to get noticed (aside from Nexus of course). And from personal experience, I KNOW they listen and take ideas from the community here.
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Austin Suggs
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:13 pm

Nice article, and you're right popular games do have higher pirated download counts. But it does go on to mention that the number of pirated download does not necessary equate to a lost sale. The DRM is placed to encourage people buy an authentic copy, or rather to discourage piracy to a degree. Now it is true, some people will pirate if an is option presented, but you can't assume that everyone who has downloaded the pirate copy has the capability or even intention to buy it in the first place. It's a matter of whether it was really a lost sale or one you'd never get regardless, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/01/judge-17000-illegal-downloads-dont-equal-17000-lost-sales.ars and also within the very article you mentioned, not all downloads counts as a lost sale. That is not to say that piracy is acceptable by any means, as it does incur some loss. I guess businesses have deemed the cost of licensing and developing with the DRM in mind to be worth the cost. But to put so much importance on the DRM and to make so draconic seems inapprorpriate (this is more of a hit to ubisoft than steam, DRM on steam by my experience in unnoticeable and I never had any trouble with it).

What I'm saying is, Bethesda doesn't have to worry so much about loss of sales in piracy, because a lot of us who love their games will buy it, heck I bought fallout 3 nearly a year before I built the system to play it with. Oblivion only had a CD check as their DRM and it still enjoyed great sales, the same for fallout 3. Furthermore, before Oblivion became available on steam, it was sold as standalone retail DVDs.

...except that I neither claimed that 1 piracy = 1 lost sale nor did I attach a dollar-loss figure to piracy. My intentions were purely to disprove your "popular games get bought while unpopular games get pirated" statement which is what I interpreted your previous post as saying (if that is not correct, please forgive me). Also, while I do believe that there will be many sales of Skyrim to Bethesda's name thanks to the series' popularity, I also believe that these sales figures will be (probably vastly) overshadowed by the number of people that will download a pirated version of the game unless Bethesda does something drastic. Otherwise, I agree with everything you say.

I was thinking of the possibilities in coding the construction set in such a way that every single mod created with it becomes a mini-DRM system. Not much, maybe something that checks a few files to see that they haven't been tampered with. If such a system could be implemented, it would at the very least create a new level of complexity for The Scene and their loyal following.


That is interesting information, however, it can not be a valid point of argument in this discussion for one simple reason.

It does not include the number of those downloads were by people who already owned or later bought the game.

While it may seem silly, once you downloaded the game, why buy it, but it is actually very common for people to download games to demo them, just like people do for music.

So at face value, the 645,000 downloads of Fallout 3 might seem like a loss of $32.25 million, unless you can account for those that already owned or later bought the game, you are basically providing nothing but incomplete information. Leaving out important information necessary for an accurate deduction of the situation.

See what I typed above. Additionally, I can't see why someone would pirate the game if they already own a copy of it (unless their disc got damaged, which I can't see happening on a large scale in two months after the game is released). After reading the whole article, I also don't get the feeling that the number of people pirating stuff is anything more than a small portion of total piracy rates.

For example, why did Crysis become the 4th most pirated game of 2008 even though it has a high-quality demo? Also, how does the comparison of 300,000 PC sales of modern Warfare 2 compare to 6 million pirated copies, despite it having a score of 86% on Metacritic? For more than half of that figure to be legitimate gamers, each of those (tentatively rounding it up to) 400,000 gamers would have to download a pirated version to demo-test it then be forced to re-download the game another 7 times, which is made even more unlikely considering that MW2 is tied to your Steam account which means you can just re-download it from there. And besides these examples, I can provide a number of personal observations in regards to people pirating software for keeps (eg: one of my brother's friends specifically told me that he was going to pirate Starcraft 2 because "[He is] not going to use it for multiplayer"). So I would love to know what the source of your (decidedly vague) figure of "very common" is. And anyway, I'm not the one who wrote the article, so if you believe that the information presented is misleading, I'm pretty sure the author would love to hear from you.
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Music Show
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:18 pm

I see we live in the 60's and tape recording has been invented just recently, so we have to discuss piracy. Won't be long and we will be thru with that.

Wait a minute, are we still discussing that [censored] for 50 years now? I can't believe it. Please make armageddon happen, i'm tired of living with that.

I love TES, bought them all until now, but i can guarantee that i won't ever buy games that bring cross dependencies with them. No Steam and no GFWL will ever get any support from me. I'd rather retire from gaming completely. It's a matter of freedom. I like Bethesda and their fine products, so i like to have a one on one deal with them. No other parties will ever decide when or wether i start a game, that i have paid for.

I know there are people who like steam. That is their decision and that does count for them only. Shall they deal with their services if they want to.
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Andres Lechuga
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:56 pm

Additionally, I can't see why someone would pirate the game if they already own a copy of it (unless their disc got damaged, which I can't see happening on a large scale in two months after the game is released).

Becuse the pirated version is usually cracked and more user-friendly. If I have a choice between a game that requires me to constantly pop in a CD, may randomly throw hissyfits because of something on or in my system, and/or require me to be online, vs. a version I never have to be hassled by... hmm, that's a tough one.

For example, why did Crysis become the 4th most pirated game of 2008 even though it has a high-quality demo? Also, how does the comparison of 300,000 PC sales of modern Warfare 2 compare to 6 million pirated copies, despite it having a score of 86% on Metacritic?

First, I wouldn't put much stock in that article's numbers. The source and methods used for their numbers are pretty shoddy (really, anything that reports to have accurate numbers of bittorrent downloads are either lying, have an agenda, or are themselves duped; this is not a normal download scheme where you can just look and see how many requests for downloads were made and how many of them were completed, and how many where from the same person/machine). That article is quite anti-piracy, and repeats a number of falsehoods spouted by pro-DRM groups, and ignores many pertinent claims made by anti-DRM groups. I can't take it seriously.

Second, you cannot measure how much piracy cost in game sales any more than you can measure how much some bad reviews did. Most people who pirate a game will not buy the game. There are people who will buy the game if they can pirate it (to get an actual representation of the finished game; a demo rarely does, if you're even lucky enough to get one), and as mentioned before, there are people who pirate it after buying it. There are also people who won't buy the game if it has DRM, regardless if it's been cracked. The question to ask is how many people would buy the game due to the lack of "zero day piracy", compared to those that don't because of the DRM (from either an idealogical stance, or because it just prevents the game from working right and they need to return it). Also factor in the added cost of implementing, testing, and support for a given DRM scheme.


To me, it seems DRM is usually used because companies are forced to, or because it makes them feel good, not because it's been particularly good at anything. We know many games have succeeded despite the lack of copy protection.. even ES itself. Hell, Oblivion was long touted and praised for being DRM free with no copy protection (that dumb CD check does not in any way prevent copying), and it was Bethesda's most popular title to date. And it came right off the heels of another of their game with the exact same stance on DRM (Morrowind), and it too was their best selling game at the time. Why think this will suddenly change and be an issue for the next game? Even games released by other companies since Oblivion that have been DRM-free still became top sellers.. look at Dragon Age. The Witcher 2 looks to continue in this tradition.

So, given how we know games can still sell really really well despite having no DRM... how many games can you list, with fact not speculation, that have been saved from low sales because of DRM?
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Elisabete Gaspar
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:48 pm

The whole thread seems to have focused on Steam and DRM, I don't care too much as long as it works for non pirates, to date most DRM schemes only let pirates play uninterrupted while the poor fools that paid for the product get victimised.

My concerns are simple if selfish.

#1, Got to have a CS.

The base game way be all well and fine but the CS is what gave Morrowind, Oblivion and now the Fallout spins life, a non negotiable make or break element as its necessary for users to patch the game over and above extended content creation.

#2, Racial choice.

Same races as previous titles, more variants welcome but as long as its not less, also race making an actual difference to player interactions with quests and NPC's would be nice, they had the faction and race disposition modifies available to them before but they didn't really do anything with them.


#3, Skills and Attributes.

At the very least, bare minimum the same as Oblivion, if missing skills were returned from Morrowind all the better, if their are even less again its a dumbed down farce.


#4, Gear, Weapon and Body Slots.

Morrowind:
Helmet
Cuirass
Right Pauldron
Left Pauldron
Greaves
Boots
Right Gauntlet / Bracer
Left Gauntlet / Bracer
Shields


Oblivion:
Helmet
Cuirass
Greaves
Boots
Gauntlet / Bracer
Shields


Fallout Spins:
Armour
Helmet


Skyrim:
??

Not even going into clothing or light medium heavy, biggest concerns are forced gear, forced weapons and less overall choice, they are certainly heading that way.



That's plenty of things to be getting on with before more unconfirmed potential trend problems are added.
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remi lasisi
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:49 pm

So you are arguing against Steam, which is a very fine and efficient service, and praising the most crappy platform around, GFWL? Is it a joke?

Ok, maybe you just don't know what are you talking about, so I will point to you some reason why GFWL is crap:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/09/15/frabjuous-day-no-more-gfwl-in-40k-games/#comment-510913

I didn't see a single point on that page that held any weight. Having to go through certification is a problem? Do you even know what the certification process is? It checks the patch for problems such as corrupting your save, or breaking comparability. If you have every used patches on PC games you would know things like this is common and Microsoft trying to weed out those kind of problems are fine by me.

Microsoft points are a problem? Can't really say as there are numerous legitimate ways to ear free MSP to use how you wish. Whereas if it were money, chances are you would not be able to gather such thanks to people being incessant crybabies and would demand to use their money everywhere.

That really just sounds like a post made by someone who has a vendetta against Microsoft for being popular.

#4, Gear, Weapon and Body Slots.

Morrowind:
Helmet
Cuirass
Right Pauldron
Left Pauldron
Greaves
Boots
Right Gauntlet / Bracer
Left Gauntlet / Bracer
Shields


Oblivion:
Helmet
Cuirass
Greaves
Boots
Gauntlet / Bracer
Shields


Fallout Spins:
Armour
Helmet


Skyrim:
??

Not even going into clothing or light medium heavy, biggest concerns are forced gear, forced weapons and less overall choice, they are certainly heading that way.



That's plenty of things to be getting on with before more unconfirmed potential trend problems are added.

Oh gosh.....I hope it doesn't follow that trend....
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:22 pm

First, please refrain from turning this topic into a platform battle. I'll monitor this as often as I can and make sure to report platform bashing and flamebaiting posts.

I know it's too early for these things but can we talk about Steam requirement on retail copies, system requirements, mod support, etc.


Steam: just because Beth let Valve put MW and Ob on Steam, doesn't mean Skyrim will launch through it straight away, or be Steam-only for PC.

System requirements: Beth like pushing current tech, so obviously it's going to have some lovely new stuff that'll push systems, but we can't get predicting that when there's eleven months of technological advancement ahead of us. PC hardware tech changes like Scottish weather.

DRM: let's be logical about this. Just because Spore and Mass Effect got spoiled by it, doesn't mean all big future releases will. If you recall, when asked about it, someone at Beth said that they know gamers prefer plain, old-school authentication. Oblivion and Fallout 3, born in the DRM age, did not have complex/plain annoying DRM systems like SecuROM. Why would they hurt their sales by changing that?

Mod support: Beth also seems to like their modding community, and I can't see why they'd let that die off in V. I can see them using and then releasing an updated and similarly powerful CS with, or soon after, the game.

Sorry if I'm coming across flame-y here; I just like keeping things realistic and factual.
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CArla HOlbert
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:02 pm

Becuse the pirated version is usually cracked and more user-friendly. If I have a choice between a game that requires me to constantly pop in a CD, may randomly throw hissyfits because of something on or in my system, and/or require me to be online, vs. a version I never have to be hassled by... hmm, that's a tough one.

No! If you want to crack your legitimate copy, you would download a crack, not the whole game. Also, cracking a game's DRM is illegal under the terms of the DMCA and it's derivatives. You may be living in another country but your posts here are stored on a server in the United States so essentially, you are risking a lot by implying that cracking DRM and breaking the law is a good thing.


First, I wouldn't put much stock in that article's numbers. The source and methods used for their numbers are pretty shoddy (really, anything that reports to have accurate numbers of bittorrent downloads are either lying, have an agenda, or are themselves duped; this is not a normal download scheme where you can just look and see how many requests for downloads were made and how many of them were completed, and how many where from the same person/machine).

Where is your evidence that their data collection methods are shoddy? Bittorrent is NOT private! The moment you plug that tracker file into the client, your IP address is distributed to every single person with that same torrent and the people that maintain the trackers. Also, it is not too difficult to get a rough estimate of downloads by finding out how many times the tracker file has been downloaded, which is exactly the method the article writer uses to gather the figures above the "top 10" image. Of course, this can be over-estimated by some users downloading the file multiple times, but it can be just as easily under-estimated by downloaders giving the download to their friends and family and some users prefering to use "magnet links" instead.

Additionally, the article writer's "Scale of Piracy" section is not based on merely one picture and one investigation, it consists of a large number of sources and findings condensed into one page. So clearly, it looks like you are dismissing the accuracy of these findings before you have even done an investigation of them.


That article is quite anti-piracy, and repeats a number of falsehoods spouted by pro-DRM groups, and ignores many pertinent claims made by anti-DRM groups. I can't take it seriously.

Such as? The article has gone to great lengths to note it's sources and prove it's accuracy. If you think that it is misleading, the burden of proof is on you to prove it. And anyway, what's wrong with being anti-piracy. If one is a real gamer and not some blood-svcking leech, they would recognise the negative effects that piracy has on PC gaming and also oppose it.
EDIT: And another thing, just in case there is some confusion: Anti-piracy != pro-DRM. The article notes on numerous occassions that DRM is not a desirable solution to piracy. I don't like DRM or piracy and I know a number of people who have the same attitude (eg: the moderaters of the Nexus sites).


Second, you cannot measure how much piracy cost in game sales any more than you can measure how much some bad reviews did. Most people who pirate a game will not buy the game. There are people who will buy the game if they can pirate it (to get an actual representation of the finished game; a demo rarely does, if you're even lucky enough to get one), and as mentioned before, there are people who pirate it after buying it. There are also people who won't buy the game if it has DRM, regardless if it's been cracked. The question to ask is how many people would buy the game due to the lack of "zero day piracy", compared to those that don't because of the DRM (from either an idealogical stance, or because it just prevents the game from working right and they need to return it). Also factor in the added cost of implementing, testing, and support for a given DRM scheme.

Okay, I'm not going to say anything in my defense because most of this paragraph is countered by:
...except that I neither claimed that 1 piracy = 1 lost sale nor did I attach a dollar-loss figure to piracy.

...and neither does the article in question:
Economic Loss

The argument is straightforward and both intuitively and logically sound: for every pirated copy of a product, there is some potential loss of income to the producer of that product. This is not the same as saying that every pirated copy is a lost sale. What it actually means is that firstly some proportion of the people who are pirating a game would have bought it in the absence of piracy. Equally as important however is the fact that even those who would never have paid the full purchase price for one reason or another may still have paid some lower amount to purchase and play the game which they pirated. This is because by the very act of obtaining and playing a game, they've clearly demonstrated that they place some value on that game. After all, if something is truly 'worthless', consumers won't bother to obtain or use it in the first place, regardless of whether it's free or not. Even if a game only gives the pirate a few hours of enjoyment, that's still worth something. In the absence of piracy they may have purchased the game at a discount several months after its release, or bought it second-hand for example. So the existence of piracy results in some loss of income to PC game developers, publishers, retailers and even other consumers.

Finally, game companies have been using DRM systems for decades, so clearly they know what to expect from it. Obviously, they know that the cost of implementing some types of DRM (ie: the less hated ones) in their games will be offset by the income from potential pirates buying the games instead. If that were not the case, they wouldn't use it, simple as that. Besides the potential of improving sales, DRM provides absolutely no benefits; to neither consumers nor the game companies that use it.


To me, it seems DRM is usually used because companies are forced to, or because it makes them feel good, not because it's been particularly good at anything.

Actually, the article mentions a number of examples of people involved in the gaming industry comming forward to say that they don't like DRM any more than the consumer. From the last page:
Suffice it to say that as shown earlier, various developers and publishers have openly stated they don't like DRM, and there's every reason to believe them. I have no doubt they don't like paying hefty fees to Sony, Macrovision or Valve for example to implement SecuROM, SafeDisc or Steam DRM for their games. They consider it a necessity, especially against day-zero piracy, otherwise they quite simply could do without the added expense and negative publicity.

Anyway, you've created a very puzzling situation. In the previous paragraph, you go to great lengths to illustrate how expensive it is to implement DRM in a PC game. Then you turn around in this paragraph and state that game companies possibly put DRM in their games just because they felt like it. This is either a contradiction or bad logic!


We know many games have succeeded despite the lack of copy protection.. even ES itself. Hell, Oblivion was long touted and praised for being DRM free with no copy protection (that dumb CD check does not in any way prevent copying), and it was Bethesda's most popular title to date. And it came right off the heels of another of their game with the exact same stance on DRM (Morrowind), and it too was their best selling game at the time. Why think this will suddenly change and be an issue for the next game? Even games released by other companies since Oblivion that have been DRM-free still became top sellers.. look at Dragon Age. The Witcher 2 looks to continue in this tradition.

When did this discussion become about the success of various games? Oh wait, when you started it. Anyway, everyone knows that the success of Morrowind and Oblivion has nothing to do with their DRM, so don't come here saying that it is. The real reason those two games succeded is it's modability, which gives those two games an enormous advantage over almost every game that has ever been released. Also, just because a franchise is successful doesn't mean that it isn't massively pirated (and it is; I see at least one person banned from the Nexus sites per day due to piracy, and that's just the ones who are stupid enough to admit piracy. Additioally, Bethesda has stated that piracy adds up to 50% of their support costs, which again is only those stupid enough to call or email for support) or that Bethesda has a lot of money in their bank account. Only hard sales figures can reveal their real success.

DA:O is another game in the same league as Bethesda's games, in that it is very moddable, which explains much of it's success. Also, you conveniently failed to mention Mass Effect, another Bioware game that enjoyed massive success despite the fact that it used very intrusive DRM. Even Spore made over 1 million sales despite the DRM hysteria. The Sims series is another very successful franchise, despite the fact that The Sims 2 was the second most pirated game of 2008. And funny that you should mention The Witcher 2 because the article I mention notes that CD Projekt has now changed from being soft-on-piracy to http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-11-22-witcher-2-torrents-could-net-you-a-fine.


So, given how we know games can still sell really really well despite having no DRM... how many games can you list, with fact not speculation, that have been saved from low sales because of DRM?

You have completely missed the point of DRM and it's purpose. DRM is not about punishing the consumer or rescuing a failed game. The sooner you understand what the real purpose is, the sooner you can have a debate that doesn't turn into a one-sided cakewalk against you. Anyway, I might answer your question when you answer mine: How many games can you list, with fact not speculation, that have been saved from low sales because the developers refused to use DRM?

Finally, comparing your post to the article I have continuously linked to: The article is mostly neutral, professionally written and extensively provides sources for it's information. In comparison, your post seems to be biased, a bit sloppy, vague and lacking even a single citation. So in a decision of which one I would be more likely to trust, the article wins hands-down.
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patricia kris
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:49 pm

I worry about the graphics.


I don't want DX9 consolized sub-par performance on my pc version.
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Joey Avelar
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:44 pm

Steam: just because Beth let Valve put MW and Ob on Steam, doesn't mean Skyrim will launch through it straight away, or be Steam-only for PC.

No, but New Vegas and other games Beth has published use Steamworks so there's a strong possibility that TESV will have to be activated through Steam.

Steam is also a good way to distribute dlc or expansion packs unlike GFWL.
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Jonathan Windmon
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:03 pm

The simplest solution would be to offer BOTH, One: the traditional disk check. and Two: The steam version, that way even if you don't have a dedicated internet connection (Especially people outside the U.S) can activate the game!
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Jamie Lee
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:25 am

The simplest solution would be to offer BOTH, One: the traditional disk check. and Two: The steam version, that way even if you don't have a dedicated internet connection (Especially people outside the U.S) can activate the game!


This!

I have an overclocked PC that will more than eat Skyrim when it comes out - however I don't connect it to the net - i use a different machine for that - so i would prefer having a CD check otherwise i will have to buy a console version
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Calum Campbell
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:51 am

This!

I have an overclocked PC that will more than eat Skyrim when it comes out - however I don't connect it to the net - i use a different machine for that - so i would prefer having a CD check otherwise i will have to buy a console version


Same here, I finally have a Pumpin' Powerful PWN'n PC (AMD PhenomII 6 Core baby!) and a Puny single core laptop with WIFI, however, if and when my Internet ever goes out, I'll still be able to DRM it,(Via free wifi @ the library & @ school) but it won't do my monolithic beast any good....And he gets very hungry! :yes:
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Darlene DIllow
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:57 pm

Anyone else worry that the system requirements will be much, much higher than with TES IV? :P

I'm afraid my Quad 2.33ghz / 4GB / GTX 460 won't handle it. xD
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brenden casey
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:22 pm

I wonder if we can port mods over to Skyrim without much trouble?

I mean, there are SO MANY visual enhancing mods (armors and weapons spring to mind), and... well... it'd be an incentive if you can port your work easily


I dount know... The devs said that they completely remade the game engine for V so I doubt there will be Oblivion to Skyrim portability.
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Siobhan Thompson
 
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Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:48 pm

Anyone else worry that the system requirements will be much, much higher than with TES IV? :P

I'm afraid my Quad 2.33ghz / 4GB / GTX 460 won't handle it. xD


I remember playing Oblivion with my AMD 1.9 Ghz 1 gb Radeon 9550 128 AGP, and was LUCKY to get 15 FPS in the market district!
Now I get 50 all sliders up! So I don't think beth will leave us hanging. :thumbsup:
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Yung Prince
 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:45 pm

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:10 pm


Ya can't take your laptop to the local starbucks and use their wifi? And if you are abroad, what's wrong with going to the local internet cafe? Even in the poorest countries in the world, there is bound to be at least ONE internet cafe around with wifi. Hell, I was in Nicaragua two years ago, and I saw a couple internet cafes. (Nicaragua is the second poorest country in the Western Hemisphere.) Not to mention the fact that you are traveling, is gaming really a necessity then?


If you must know I work overseas in hostile environments, of which there are far more than your seemingly elitist first-world mind believes. At the end of the day I like to kick back with a game, and the last thing I want is to have to run down to the local internet cafe, if one even exists, and risk getting shot or kidnapped just to install a game for which I HAVE THE DAMN DISC. I realize this is an incredibly uncommon situation to be in, but how hard is it to leave this as an option and not mandatory? Sure, there are ways I could work around Steam, but having to work around something does not encourage me to buy it when I look at the shelves of the very internet cafes you mention and see racks of games for $1 USD that I know are cracked and Steam-free; the pirates have a better, easier game experience and I end up punished for wanting to support a game developer.
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Annika Marziniak
 
Posts: 3416
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:22 am

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:28 am

*Actually I only bought one copy of Fallout: NV as well, but I bought two FO:3 [Launch and GOTY] and I bought 5 copies of Oblivion [360, PS3... then I got sick of the console version's lack of content and bought my first gaming PC so I got the Original, then NotN and SI when I found them in the clearance bin. Because on wear and tear on the discs I bought a GOTY copy for backup... Then Steam had Oblivion GOTY Deluxe for $6.79 so I bought that too]...

...having it on Steam from the get-go is going to save me so much money, I only need that one copy.

**Steam doesn't hurt that much. I can't remember the last time Steam has asked me for my passwords. I have a gaming laptop and demand portability of games without an internet connection, I've abandoned Ubisoft... but for the most part gamers are tied a stationary, always tied to the internet desktops that shouldn't have an issue connecting to Steam. If your internet is slow or limited then buy the retail version and use the disc for installs.


I can't even begin to understand what you are doing with so many copies of the game. I buy one for myself and one for my wife, rip a bit perfect copy to an external HD and my file server for archiving, and be done with it. I have my HD to take with me wherever I go so that I can rotate games(at least, ones that don't require that I find an internet connection to install).

I see we live in the 60's and tape recording has been invented just recently, so we have to discuss piracy. Won't be long and we will be thru with that.

Wait a minute, are we still discussing that [censored] for 50 years now? I can't believe it. Please make armageddon happen, i'm tired of living with that.

I love TES, bought them all until now, but i can guarantee that i won't ever buy games that bring cross dependencies with them. No Steam and no GFWL will ever get any support from me. I'd rather retire from gaming completely. It's a matter of freedom. I like Bethesda and their fine products, so i like to have a one on one deal with them. No other parties will ever decide when or wether i start a game, that i have paid for.

I know there are people who like steam. That is their decision and that does count for them only. Shall they deal with their services if they want to.


+1
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Marcin Tomkow
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:31 pm

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:41 am

An interesting read about piracy from the view of an indie developer.

http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/Another-view-of-game-piracy


And another.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/99482-13-video-game-piracy-problem-symptom-problem-long


Moderator note: these are not pro-piracy, they are just providing view-points as to why piracy isn't the problem.
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Marcia Renton
 
Posts: 3563
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:15 am

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:29 pm

I don't see that happening. I can't even begin to imagine the CS on a console, having to use a controller. They could possibly create something akin to Forge but it would be severely limited and take a lot of time to implement which could be better used.

On DRM, I only played Morrowind on PC, what security did Oblivion have? Would they not just have the same?

You can use usb keyboards on consoles, I don't think that would really be the problem. I would love to see the CS on consoles, but I think a real modding community emerging on the console scene is a far off dream, for now.

As for DRM, Oblivion just had a disk check. GotY edition had something else, too, I think, but it was only minor. There's a big debate in the internet community about DRM right now, so it is something worth discussing. I hope they do just go with the disk check like Oblivion.
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lexy
 
Posts: 3439
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:37 pm

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:28 pm

I think if you can run Oblivion well then TESV will be no probelm. Remember this game is still coming out for 360,PS3. My concern is that TES always has very impressive graphics. I want a scalable engine that will look and perform great on older PC's and consoles. I also want to be able to see IQ benefits from the high end PC spec though. With DirectX11's tessellation and directcompute we could see a huge leap in visuals if Bethesda wanted on the PC side. Tessellation would be PERFECT for distant geometry and Armour detail. Maybe some fluid simulation via direct compute or advanced physics would also be welcome. Something like tessellation can scale very well from low end hardware to high end hardware. My laptops GTX460m can run tessellation in Lost planet 2 and Uniengine heaven just fine, but when I go to my desktops GTX580 I see an incredible difference. But point being both my puny GTX460m (desktop card that is close is a GTS450) and my more beefy GTX580 can both perfectly play with advanced DX11 features cause they scale so well.
I'll be really disappointed if Bethesda doesnt heavily make use of both DX10 and DX11 in TESV. After all some of you may remember Morrowind had Tessellation. It was present in the form of ATi's Nform patches. It was a rough primitive version of DX11's but still if TES3 had it TES5 should for sure.
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Jonathan Egan
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:27 pm

Post » Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:58 pm

You can use usb keyboards on consoles, I don't think that would really be the problem. I would love to see the CS on consoles, but I think a real modding community emerging on the console scene is a far off dream, for now.


PS3 yes, Xbox 360 no. Microsoft wouldn't allow a third party USB device to work within a game on their system, they're very restrictive and controlling. I bought a Logitech G25 racing wheel to play with Forza 3 only to realise it wasn't compatible with it! Unreal Tournament 3 also wasn't allowed to be mod compatible on the Xbox 360 since Microsoft wanted full control over what went into their system and what didn't. I'm not a fan of that stance.
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Wayne W
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:49 am

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