So, according to Lore, the god Talos is all that's holding the world together? This does not sit well with me for several reasons, which I'll elaborate:

1. In some texts, it's implied that Talos is preventing the kalpa from restarting (somehow). Yet what isn't explained is why he's prolonging the kalpa. Why not, as the Greybeards say, let the world be reborn?

2. The Thalmor....now can you really be sure that their anti-Talos crusade is really for the purpose of "unmaking" the world when everything in-game points to them seeking dominion over Tamriel? It would make more sense that the Talos persecution is linked to Numidium and the siege of Alinor, since Talos only became a god thanks to the Warp of the West. And I don't recall any Thalmor agents mentioning a return to the Dawn Era.

3. And finally, let's assume that it is true and Talos is the cosmic keystone keeping the world intact. This brings up a very pressing question: Why the hell is Tiber Septim getting this Mary Sue treatment? It was bad enough that Oblivion practically painted the Septim dynasty as a line of Emperor Mary Sues who are the chosen ones keeping the world from being invaded by demons. Making the fate of the world hinge on the worship of Talos is not exactly an improvement over that level of bull****. And ever since I played Morrowind, I always interpreted Talos as being no different than Vivec, Almalexia, Sotha Sil, or Dagoth Ur.....just a ruler who achieved apotheosis.

All hail Molag Bal.
But yeah, they are taking this Septim thing a bit to far. I'm also pretty sure Talos achienved God-Hood before the warp in the west

1) He's the stand-in for The Missing God, Shezarr (who is also Shor and Lorkhan). Because of this, he strengthens the "wheel" of Mundus.

2) They're purging half-breeds, bosmer who identify with mankind, and banned Talos because Talos's place mythically.

3) Imperial propoganda, and that mankind is cares more that he had shown that even a lowly mortal can become a god. Also, you really need to read more in-game books. The Septim line is anything BUT Mary Sues. Uriel become the person we knew only because he really [censored] changed after Arena. Before Arena, he was a playboy. After being trapped in Oblivion did he change, and allowed what happened in Daggerfall slide, as his only goal there was to pacify the reigon. In addition, Martin was a daedric worshipper,and became a born again Niner after a bunch of stuff when horrifically wrong, who was also Sean Bean and therefore had to die. But really, the Septim Line had a ton of bad eggs. In fact, it was more common to have average to bad emperors/empresses than good ones. Seriously, there are lots of books dedicated to how [censored] up that line is.


Bottom line, read more books.

They might only be out for world domination in order to remove possible interruptions. Killing, subjugating, assimilating, and otherwise controlling everyone else will significantly reduce the chances of a previously unnoticed Shezzarine dramatically storming in and killing every mer in sight five seconds before the Grand Plan is completed.

What the [censored] is a Mary Sue? Also why is it a bad thing that Talos is keeping the kalpa from ending?

And I'm unclear as to how the Warp in the West caused Talos to ascend to godhood. I always assumed he became a god following his death. The Warp in the West only released a part of the Talos Oversoul.

1 - For the same reason Shor/Shezarr does it.

2. The Thalmor sure seemed willing to help Ancano with his "I have the power to unmake the world" scheme, even if it didn't require removing Talos. And besides, I doubt Bethesda would have the Thalmor ban Talos worship if they weren't going to follow the MK text about it. I recall MK saying the Concordat was his idea, anyway.

At its core, a Mary Sue is a character that's written to be perfect. Too perfect. Perfect beyond all reason, to the point that even their in-universe flaws (assuming the author deigns to give them any) make them better than everyone else.

It's also a very loaded term that often gets thoughtlessly bandied about by people who slap it on any character they don't like.

His will is divine, and as of yet, beyond our rude-ken.


They don't mention Numidium either. But really, the Thalmor we meet in-game are all rather lowly peons who aren't likely aware of what grand mythic projects the upper echelons have planned.


Which Tiber and the Septims are definitely not. T-money was a megomanical social-climber, Pelagius III was madder than a [censored]-house rat. POTEMA THE WOLF-QUEEN OF SOLITUDE DEAR GOD THE HUMANITY.

That's why it's important to remember that Talos ≠ Tiber Septim, not fully.

Arcturian Heresy exists, so Tiber cannot be called a mary sue by any stretch.

Now I wouldn't call them Mary Sues, but I don't recall Tiber (or Vivec, for that matter) having any flaws. They're backstabbing bastards, true, but that gets them rewarded.

Also: Even if that's not what the Thalmor want, if we make enough people believe it's true, Bethesda might be more tempted to do it. But maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Walk like canon until canon walks like you.

Then it definitely can't refer to Talos and the Septims. The Arcturian Heresy paints Talos as a power hungry mercenary, a ghost blinded by vengeance, and a traitorous mage who in turn gets betrayed. It's only when they all become Talos that things steady out. Furthermore Talos has been largely if not completely out of the picture since then unless you count Wulf, and even then his motives are mysterious if not completely absent in my opinion, as Wulf only seems to be a casual observer by this point. Either way he's not so perfect, that half the audience doesn't begrudge him for one thing or another. And that point of begrudging is his non-interference.

If you want a perfect character designed to be loved by everyone who always gets what he wants, look at Vivec instead or Nerevar. Talos isn't nearly to the point of ascendancy as the former.

If anything Talos is both literally and figuratively the most human god. He begins as a merc and a backstabber as Talos Stormcrown and a power-crazed conqueror as Tiber Septim. Even then he wasn't the perfect power-crazed conqueror as he couldn't defeat Hammerfell or Morrowind through violence. Furthermore the other pieces of Talos were the wrath-incarnate personality of Ysmir and the betrayer and betrayed Lorkhanic echo of Zurin Arctus. And Talos' haste in conquering cost him part of his soul, an act which Vehk interprets as his killing of Tiber Septim. It's only after his sketchy life of violence and betrayal that he sees the scope of Tamriel and gains wisdom to simply do nothing as a god. If Talos the god had remained Talos the man, Tamriel would be burning under red diamond heaven fire. His godhood proves his complexity and his evolution as a character.

I like this.

Your forgot Black Marsh, which he won only through asking "hey, want to join? You only need to say yes, and you'll only be in, in name only and have to put up with an occational inspector." Even Tiber didn't want to deal with putting up with all the deadly toxins and horrific diseases. Then again, I could see the Hist seeing Tiber Septim as Talos the god when he won Black Marsh through a treaty. Also, he did obtain Hammerfell through violence by allying with the Crowns Forebearers, though it was Cyrus who forced him to reconsider his previous deal after he conquored it.

Forebearers!

Get it right, Hellmouth!

Yokudan and Reguardian politics was never my strongpoint. Also, too much Applejack Daniels.

Most of it has been answered but for this last part

This is the nature of lorkhan. He believes by prolonging creation there's a better chance of the mortals transcending it instead of everyone being the same old et'ada day in and day out(Or whatever nontime units you wish to use). Though in the aldudaggas, it's implied that letting it run too long is a bad thing too. Why that is, we don't know.

Most of what you know them from is through a mythic lens. It tends to ignore the flaws.

I take it as Aka is afraid of the Godhead awakening, Cecilff2

I still don't know where all the Talos hate is coming from. If you were all on Tamriel you'd be under His loving gaze.

Torygg: How can you worship that guy? He killed a man!
Ulfric: Hey, only for revenge. "Vengeance is mine," quoth Talos. Then he stabbed that guy right in the freaking face!
Ulfric: Talos was the holiest man ever to slap iron! He killed for your sins!

I presume most Talos hate comes from people's take on Imperial propoganda. Personally, I don't mind him, after all, he is the stand-in for Shezarr.,

I don't even see what the big deal with Imperial propaganda is. It's not like the Empire is using a Goebbels-like propaganda machine to inspire constant violence against all elves and enemies of the Empire. I don't even see it as being maleficent. It's just the Empire's shot at religious standardization.

Because Imperial propoganda tends to demonize anything they don't like and make perfect saints out of those they support. That, or Skyrim emphasized Talos too much, which I agree at points. Needed much more Shor.

Shor isn't the head of the pantheon anymore. Being the ruler of Sovngarde is the kind of postion he would get now.

He's dead. They don't worship him directly anymore.

Stop depressing me