Concerns with changes in melee combat in Skyrim.

Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:36 am

This may have been posted and I didn't see, but the Official Playstation Magazine in France I believe was just released not too long ago. Gameranx recently did an article about the contents of the magazine and what they learned about Skyrim.

http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1407/article/bethesda-reveals-new-skyrim-facts/

There is some interesting new information that I hadn't heard about before, but my main focus is in regards to this new "Magnetism" system. I believe this is the first time it has been mentioned by any magazine publisher, and BGS sure hasn't talked about it.

* Unlike the previous games where melee combat were free-for-alls prone to friendly fire, “Skyrim” will feature a context-sensitive melee system described as “Magnetism” in the French PSN, where your melee attacks will automatically target foes instead of slashing everything in your path. This is somewhat similar to the autotargeting system in “Assassin’s Creed Brotherhood.”

What are your thoughts on Magnetism? I personally am somewhat concerned as to how it will exactly work. While I do not want to hit my allies and have them turn on me until I'm dead (you have to block and do something to make them stop right?), I am concerned this could limit combat too much. Part of what makes TES combat so fun is how free-style it really is and it really gives control to the player. Maybe it's just the mentioning of Assassin's Creed Brotherhood that has me bugged, but what are your thoughts?
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Kelly Upshall
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:15 pm

give it to the npc's, not the player i say. or at the very least, make it optional
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Niisha
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:52 am

i think the best method would be to make npc's ai so good that they DONT get in your way
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Matt Bee
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:39 am

Yeah we've heard about this, and I have to say it's a blatant NO if it applies to PC, as we're surely capable of striking our foes where we want.
It might be good for consoles as aiming appears to be harder, but it shouldn't be too strong.
It's also given rise to other questions and inquiries, such as if arrows fired from bows would apply to this rule of Magnetism, or if it then becomes impossible to hack down an ally if an enemy is nearby.
For example, an arrow might target an enemy due to this Magnetism, but when the enemy moves the arrow will miss because it targeted the enemy itself rather than where you might have anticipated he may have moved yourself.
If that makes sense. :S
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Anne marie
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:51 am

I personally dont like that idea at all. I agree with the above statement that alot of the fun comes from the freedom of the combat. also, would you have to have a "switch targets" control?
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R.I.p MOmmy
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:42 am

I don't like this change. It's true sometimes the friendly npcs are a pain in the way, but I don't think that would be more annoying than having the magnetic cheat. By the contrary, I think fighting the enemies while having to be careful to protect my companions was one of the challenges that made combat more interesting for me.
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meghan lock
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:45 am

As long as this helps remove random friendly NPCs jumping RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME WHEN I'M SWINGING causing me to hit them, then daddy like. That sort of annoyance made me hate followers.
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Glu Glu
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:13 am

as long as there is some parrying, I will be fine. Games with sword fighting haven't quite figured it out yet, there have been games that have come close (can't really think of any off the top of my head. help me?), but still... meh
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Jennifer May
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:41 am

Yeah we've heard about this, and I have to say it's a blatant NO if it applies to PC, as we're surely capable of striking our foes where we want.
It might be good for consoles as aiming appears to be harder, but it shouldn't be too strong.
It's also given rise to other questions and inquiries, such as if arrows fired from bows would apply to this rule of Magnetism, or if it then becomes impossible to hack down an ally if an enemy is nearby.
For example, an arrow might target an enemy due to this Magnetism, but when the enemy moves the arrow will miss because it targeted the enemy itself rather than where you might have anticipated he may have moved yourself.
If that makes sense. :S

Yep. You are referring to anticipating the enemy's movements. I apologize for posting something that has been discussed. I didn't see anything on the forums, and this article is only a few days old.

There are definitely a lot of concerns with regard to how disruptive this Magnetism system is in regards to player control. I can understand the rational doing this, but I fear it may have more negative effects than good, much like Level scaling in Oblivion.
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Claire Lynham
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:03 am

As long as this helps remove random friendly NPCs jumping RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME WHEN I'M SWINGING causing me to hit them, then daddy like. That sort of annoyance made me hate followers.

I agree that was pretty annoying, but that should and can be done by AI scripting, not by player aim aids.
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Nancy RIP
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:11 am

There's also the thing that when I point my crosshair at something, I expect to be targeting it, not the person/item 5 feet away.
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Ian White
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:02 am

If the effect is that I avoid hitting allies who walk into the swing of my sword then I attack a enemy I would say it is a good thing.
If you hit the allied better than the enemy you should hit him instead, so you can not use a claymore to hit an enemy while an ally is blocking your aim.
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John Moore
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:06 am

I could care less. I'm going to play and be happier than ever.
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Tracy Byworth
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 7:38 am

I play on console and most games allow you to turn their targeting "help" off. I can only hope Skyrim will follow along those lines. Because in some cases it is necessary in FPS games because they are so fast paced, and whether we like to admit it or not console controllers are just not designed to move a cross-hair across the screen fast and smooth enough. That being said, I feel like it would be highly unnecessary for such a thing to be mandatory in a game like Skyrim. Which leads me to believe it will most likely be on by default with the option to turn it off. (Like using expert targeting in Red Dead Redemption)

The latest issue of Game Informer (215) has a really interesting article that explains the different methods first person shooters use to help you aim, and if you are curious or unsure about those systems I recommend picking it up :)

I would like everyone to keep in mind though that these magazines are leaving out a key part of what Todd Howard said. Skyrim uses a slight magnetism. There is a huge difference between full blown magnetism (halo) and slight magnetism.
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Sarah Evason
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:13 pm

Assassins creed had great combat and you still could hit people by accident it just made it easier to focus on enemies and not get frustrated attacking the good guys. This is a great thing IMO
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Sarah Bishop
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:42 am

I play on console and most games allow you to turn their targeting "help" off. I can only hope Skyrim will follow along those lines. Because in some cases it is necessary in FPS games because they are so fast paced, and whether we like to admit it or not console controllers are just not designed to move a cross-hair across the screen fast and smooth enough. That being said, I feel like it would be highly unnecessary for such a thing to be mandatory in a game like Skyrim. Which leads me to believe it will most likely be on by default with the option to turn it off. (Like using expert targeting in Red Dead Redemption)

The latest issue of Game Informer (215) has a really interesting article that explains the different methods first person shooters use to help you aim, and if you are curious or unsure about those systems I recommend picking it up :)

I would like everyone to keep in mind though that these magazines are leaving out a key part of what Todd Howard said. Skyrim uses a slight magnetism. There is a huge difference between full blown magnetism (halo) and slight magnetism.

Very interesting. I actually do have the Battlefield 3 copy of GI. Although I'm guilty of only looking at the Battlefield exclusive so far... (off topic that game looks amazing, I have been waiting for it for 5 years!) Anyways I will definitely have to read up on that subject you stated. The degree of magnetism will definitely be important as to how much control the player will still have. It would also be nice if there were an actual option to turn off the auto-target if the player wanted (I hated auto-target in RDR personally).
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Elisabete Gaspar
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:02 am

This is the first thing I've heard about Skyrim that truly qualifies as Dumbing Down...no. Just...no. This isn't Fable (press X to win!).

I would be ok with it if it was optional, could be switched off, even better if it started off switched off and just had the option to be switched on.

Swinging wildly, hearing your ally cry out "I'm on your side!", these are part of the TES experience - we Don't. Need. AutoAim.
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Clea Jamerson
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:06 pm

I'm sure we can still hit our friendlies, it can't be 100% restrictive because that would mean locked automatic aiming which would svck.
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Jessica Phoenix
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:46 pm

we have no clue how powerful this "slight-magnetism" is yet. It might be unnoticeable, it might have an on/off setting.
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lolly13
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:37 am

The most worrying feature of Skyrim so far, I hope it doesn't make it in the game because who I hit in combat should be entirely my responsibility. It is very realistic. Sometimes your comrades get in the way on the battlefield and you must protect them, it's part of the whole experience.
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Smokey
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:34 am

As a PC player I'm definately not interested in having my attacks "magnetic", so it better be something I can turn off.

It makes sense that if your swinning a huge mofo sword you have to be carefull who is standing around you, and if "Magnetism" applies to AOE spells then thats just cheeze.

I ALWAYS turn ON frendly fire in RPG's, its about dificulty and realism preferences. If your causing firey explosions, you better be carefull of your allies, unless of course they invested in fire imunity just to be around a pyromaniac like yourself.
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Rowena
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:53 pm

Depends entirely on how big the average combat encounter is going to be. Whats being described isnt a lock-on, just a "whatever youre looking at is what you hit" thing. Ill wait and see because it also really depends on what NPC AI is like in combat because I cant say Oblivion had a good system by any stretch.
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Benji
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:03 am

Hmm... This sounds so... anti elder scrolls :s...

What's wrong with making a combat system like 'Might and Magic - Dark Messiah'? That game ruled because it's melee combat was so much fun.
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Jade Muggeridge
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:00 am

They're probably doing this to improve console gameplay, they can't play for [censored] with those crappy thumbsticks...

Hopefully i'm completely wrong about the targeting system, maybe it won't be so bad? :P
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Quick Draw
 
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Post » Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:56 pm

They're probably doing this to improve console gameplay, they can't play for [censored] with those crappy thumbsticks...

Hopefully i'm completely wrong about the targeting system, maybe it won't be so bad? :P

I beg to differ. Though none can deny a mouse is superior for FPS targeting, that doesn't make the thumbsticks crappy by any means. I find no trouble aiming when I toggle the "help" off when they give me the option. (see expert targeting in Red Dead Redemption)

That being said I'm all for such things being implemented for people who have trouble aiming. :)
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Meghan Terry
 
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