So throughout the game there's the whole "are synth's alive?" question. I'm truly confused are they truly sentient/sapient or are they just simulating?

Because nothing that has been said in the game has convinced me to one side or another, the institute scientist say they're just machine's and I'm inclined to believe them because I'd assume they know and understand their creations the most, but at the same time these aren't exactly the most ethical people around.

From the way synths behave i think they are alive due to them being self aware, but still as stated previously it could just be a really well done simulation.

So which is it? can someone link me to definitive proof to one side or will this just turn into another crazy philosophical debate on what life truly is (which it probably will)

(Just so people understand my view on the subject i believe a machine can become "alive" that organics are not necessarily the only form of life. The term organic means little to me because at the end of the day it's made out of inorganic material. But unlike the Geth of Mass Effect who i believe to be true AI are the synths true AI...?)

The question is why the Karma system is absent.

If the Institute is right, then the Synths are just video game characters. Programs spitting out answers they were designed to in order to simulate life.

If the Railroad is right, the Institute is a bunch of slavers and the BoS is committing genocide.

There's no question as to who is right if there's an answer you can prove.

The closest objective answer we can get is from Curie who is a robot not programmed to simulate human behavior who moves to a Synth body and claims to experience the beginnings of human emotions like love, lust, fear, boredom, and the like. Since Curie is designed for scientific anolysis, you're not going to get a more objective anolysis of the situation which seems to indicate the Synths are alive and human beings.

I, for one, never doubted it and was of the mind CODSWORTH was alive the moment i heard the sheer joy at my return and talked to him about his grief over my disappearance.

I also work in academia and scientists will routinely alter and ignore data which doesn't fit their political and social agenda. You can't trust the Institute to say Synths are alive if they're making $$$ and profit from them.

that is the whole point, the game DOESN'T tell, it never was meant to be a question the game answers, but for you to answer for yourself.

Personally, i think ones like Danse, Nick, and Glory are alive, yes, but for the most part, most of them are just mindless drones.

We see Non-Synth Robots like Codsworth and Curie show some kind of emotion, and when Curie gets her synth body she talks about feeling emotion, yet we see most Mr Handies/Gutsies in the game act like robots with no "real" emotion, no reaction to the events that have happened, as well, so it is not just synths.

Game doesnt rly give you a definite answer though it does tell you that synths can fell emotions and are self aware so its up to you to decide. The game does tell you though that a gen 3 synths body is basicly an cyberneticly augmented human(arteficialy grown but biologicly not much diferent apart the few cyrbenetic implants, even standard medical testing doesnt destinguish gen 3 synth from human unless you do a full disection-thats ingme data from certain quest can pm me for which one if you want to play it trough yourself).

Synths are robots hint on synthetic organisms so no they are not human

Are Synths alive?

It depends. What are your views about the film Blade Runner?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoAzpa1x7jU

Coincidentally, anyone curious should check out the Cambridge Polymer Lab rooftop for a nice little easter egg to this scene.

Robots being alive, etc? Totally possible. Human beings are but biological machines, yes? Some humans are mindless drones, it seems.

Battlestar Galactica is probably one of the best shows about robots vs human hate & love. If you do choose BSG, watch the new series 'Caprica' - I don't want to spoil anything - but the robots were pretty much human the whole time.

Humans trying to make human-like robots is nothing new, and dates back centuries. This is an eye opener:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLb54FCMt9o

If something is perfectly simulating consciousness then for all intents and purposes it is conscious.

The identity of indiscernibles states that something which is indistinguishable from another thing actually is that other thing.

Since there is a lack of proof for either case it would be better to just kill them all. Rather than risking a skynet scenario. I know I know...I'm a horrible person.

Bah! There's no Skynet but no sixy BSG androids either!

I think it's a mix.

At the sum of it's parts, the synth is definitely a machine.

But if we take account of sentience, and use that as a measure of wether or not something is a living being or not- it becomes quite a difficult question to answer. Especially when you think about the G3 synths being atomically correct, and built to simulate human reactions to stimuli.

Ahhh, this is the big question.

I defer to Morphius...What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain?

I look at Synths who want to "live", and I think about my own body. What is my brain but a computer? What is my body but a chasis that holds my vital components? What are feelings? What are emotions, other than my brain, or computer, interpreting the world around me?

What makes me different from a Synth, other than the sum of my parts, and the fact that I was made in a womb, rather than a lab?

Well you don't have a shutdown code. You can't be programmed to kill certain people when directed to. Synths don't actually have free will because they can forced to do whatever they are programmed to do. They are great infiltrators because they don't even know they are infiltrators. The emotions and everything else are all there just to facilitate infiltrating human society.

See this my train of thought sometimes, like bad synths only reinforce this like the Railroad irks me sometimes if not all the time. Like that synth they mind wiped that became a raider that's just unacceptable (idk why i find it unacceptable, this might sound weird but i'd rather be killed by a human being then one playing pretend...)

Honestly i find the Institute to be worse than the Railroad in someways, all that technology, but lets waste resources making synths instead of purifying water, helping crops grow, and all that other stuff necessary to help kick start civilization again...(probably going to end up going w/ the BOS even though don't want to join them i'd rather act like merc for them, but this fallout doesn't allow a lot of blatant rpg wiggle room but that's a whole other topic)

To be fair certain people can be mentally condition to execute certain actions like the whole pavlov dog scenario to a certain extent...unless i misunderstood that whole experiment so i could stand corrected...(not saying it's 100% but children are especially impressionable)

Actually I can argue that people can be programmed. Through habits and indoctrination. Look at the worlds armed forces. You are trained to kill and defend against certain targets. While it's not quite hard coding into a mainframe, humans can be trained and programmed for various behaviors. Especially killing.

Habits can be programmed in children via their upbringing from their parents or guardians. And in advlts from work environments, home life, and other stimuli.

And while we do not have a shut down code, there are many ways to flip the Off switch on a human permanently.

Training and habits aren't the same as programming in the way we talk about synths. Humans can break habits, ignore training, and change their minds at will. Synths have no choice except to carry out their programming. I can't walk into your room and say " he who remains shutdown code echo 7 delta" then ship you off to the workshop and make you a new personality with a completely new set of memories.

Soldiers disobey orders, people break life long habits, and others see through indoctrination, synths can never do more or less than the commands embedded into their programming order them to do.

And yet the game is showing us otherwise.

The malfunctioning synths? Those are still recovered, reprogrammed, and repurposed. Even the ones "saved" by the railroad get erased and reprogrammed.

Synths are just purpose built to play off Anthropomorphism.

ghost in the shell has some great theories about this as well. take for instance the major, she was a person and then becomes completely cybernetic, so is she still her in a new body or is it a machine that thinks its her?

its the Theseus's ship debate. if you replace one cell in your body that completely mimics the original but is a machine are you still you or are you a machine? well obviously you are you. now what if you end up replacing all of your cells and yourself until your 99% artificial? are you still you or are you a machine pretending to be you? are you your ghost and the body just a shell? (tada ghost in the shell)

these debates are awesome btw