I wanted to find out more about the time frame of the dragons' presence in Tamriel and their history, because the game (Skyrim) is not very clear about this. But after reading a bunch about Ysgramor, dragons and Dragon Priests, the Dragon War, I have only gotten myself more confused. To my knowledge, Ysgramor was the first king of Skyrim. During his reign, he drove out the Falmer and expanded Skyrim's borders into High Rock and Morrowind. The Nords of this era built new cities, fought large battle and wars, and generally prospered during this period. Not until King Borgas is killed is there any major strife in Skyrim. This is what my research has told me so far. The Imperial Library, UESP, and all in game lore sources confirm this.

So when exactly did the dragons come?

Nowhere is it explained when the Dragon War occurred, or even when dragons arrived in Tamriel. They obviously weren't there when the Aldmer arrived, they are never mentioned. The in game book "The Dragon War" (first seen in Skyrim) is the only solid source of dragon lore besides what is said by the characters. It says that Ysgramor and the early Nords worshiped the dragons back on Atmora, and they brought their worship with them. The Dragon Priests are said to have ruled the people as slaves when they came to Skyrim. But this does not fit with the other lore at all. Ysgramor was a king! There is no mention of him being subservient to any other lords or Dragon Priests besides what we learn in Skyrim. If the Nords were ruled by the dragons with an iron fist, how were they able to wage their own wars and build their own great cities? It doesn't make any sense at all. It seems that either I am somehow missing something major, or that dragons and this entire plot line was shoehorned into the old lore and never fully explained. The book is obviously not incorrect, there are Nordic ruins with the symbols of their old gods, and there are Dragon Priests all over the place. Can someone please explain to me how this all fits together?

This is my first post in the Lore section of the forums. I am really just fascinated by TES lore and I hope to learn more as I continue to research. But if I did something wrong or made some gross oversight, please forgive me.

Don't ya know its the cool thing to do is add new lore and disregard any old lore? get with the times man.

Not having the game yet I only get bits and pieces and so far their not adding up to me either...but I don't have the full story either.

I question this too. I gues bethesda just rushed the story into the lore.

Did dragons come before nedes or with them? Or before the elves? And why didnt they rule over the elves who came before the first humans? And if the dragons are nords gods, then when did they begin worshipping the aedra?

Dragons lived in the North, Elves lived in the south.

The Dragon War is yet another vision of the Dawn. Gets a bit mixed up in historical times, too, but that's half shoddy scholarship and half the remainder of Dawn-times.

Yep. If something doesn't make sense, it's because Vivec and Talos channeled the Dawn Era into the egg named EIEIO which is a reflection of the computer language and any variations thereof.

Aren't any dates given for the Dragon War at all?

None that I have found. Although it is clear that the war started some time after Ysgramor and men came from Atmora, but obviously before the First Era.

That leaves thirteen generations, unless my hunch is right and Beth retconned the beginning of the First Era to the return of the 500.

Where are these 13 generations you speak of? Ysgramor was one of the original settlers in Skyrim.

Actually, I've found several books and a wall plaque that imply the first year of E1 was the return with the 500.

Return of the 500 retconned to 1E? How lame. I'll just use the old dates for now.

c. ME 1000 - Ysgramor and his merry men come to Tamriel. Cue "Songs of the Return".
1E 113 or 1E 143(?) - King Harald, the thirteenth of Ysgramor's line, unites the northern regions of Tamriel and forms the kingdom of Skyrim.
1E 221 - King Harald dies at the age of 108. His son Hjalmer takes the throne.
1E 222 - Hjalmer dies and his brother, Vrage the Gifted, becomes the next king.
1E 240 - Under Vrage, Skyrim expands its borders dramatically.
1E 369 - The Wild Hunt kills King Borgas, last of Ysgramor's line. Skyrim plunges into the War of Succession.
1E 420 - Pact of Chieftains ends the War of Succession.

etc... etc...

There seems to be roughly 1100 years between Ysgramor's arrrival and King Harald's founding of Skyrim, and 1400 years between Ysgramor and Borgas. The sources about the dragon war never specifies how long the Nords were ruled over or how long the dragon war lasted, so maybe it can be squeezed in at some point?

"The Dragon War" states that dragon priests "ruled men as equals to the kings" and that they "demanded tribute and set down laws and codes of living that kept peace between dragons and men". I think this means they served as very powerful spiritual leaders, that secular leaders/kings, like Ysgramor, probably respected and listened to when it was important, but otherwise ignored. Instead the chieftains focused on more immediate things like trade, supplies, exploration, and raiding helpless mer.

The Nords also came to Tamriel over a series of migrations; Ysgramor wasn't the first to land, just the most remembered (or that's what a few old in-game books have implied. Perhaps the idea's been retconned). Something happened during that time that caused the priests to virtually enslave the Nords.

"It's unclear if this was due to an ambitious dragon priest, or a particular dragon, or a series of weak kings. Whatever the cause, the dragon priests began to rule with an iron fist, making virtual slaves of the rest of the population." Maybe the seeds for this sudden turn to dictatorship started before Ysgramor landed?

Historically, the only gap time the war could take place would be during one of the thirteen generations (1100 years) between Ysgramor and King Harald. Unless the thirteen generations isn't wholly accurate, or the First Era retcon is true, making the whole time frame impossible.

Or it's just another version of the Dawn, as Lady N said, and I just wasted a half hour over thinking this whole thing. Wouldn't be the first time.

Wait, nevermind, I didn't know my timelines.

Err... when does the game imply that the 500 started the First Era? Most sources seem to treat the Dragon War as post-Ysgramor, during the Merethic Era.

I'm not entirely clear when it comes to the Dawn era, but I do have to question whether the Dragon Wars are a remembrance of the Dawn.
The signs of the Dragon Cult and the Dragon War are all over Skyrim with ruins, plaques and dragon graves. Not to mention Alduin, a vision of Alduin's defeat and Paarthurnax practically confirming the Nords did indeed rise up against the dragons at some point. Paarthurnax himself was heavily involved in it. Doesn't this indicate the war is a seperate event?

Meanwhile afaik the last known Dragon Cult monastery (Forelhost) was found and neutralized in 1E 139/140. It seems the Dragon War was still present in the Nords' collective memory then. The stories were apparently bad enough for a Nord company to forget all about murdering elves for a while

The entire history of dragons in Skyrim seems to conflict with the already established lore in almost every regard. That, added to the fact that there is no mention of it anywhere besides one or two books, makes all of the new lore seem forced and hard to believe.

I don't think its beyond resolving, and it can be put in place in a way that seems logical. Problem as of right now is that we really don't have all the pieces to put together a coherent picture.

Ysgramor needs to be elaborated. Hopefully there will be more information in either DLC for the game or a new book.

Somehow when reading "The Dragon War", I missed how it implied that the war was post-Ysgramor. For it to make sense to me I had been assuming that it was sometime in the Dawn.
If one wanted to be weaselly about it, you *could* interpret that book such that the mentions of Ysgramor are not necessarily setting a time-frame for the other events described, but... yeah, it definitely seems to be implying that this went on amongst the Nords sometime after the Return.
blah.

I really am starting to wish the Civil War served as the main quest. The Dragon War feels forced because it is. It's basically forced into a Timeline that really lacks the room for it, even if it has gaps that are hundreds of years long. The Civil War feels more natural, IMO.

Well, in my view, the Dragon War was so far back in time that few know exactly what happened, as stated several times in the game. One also remember that around the time the Dragon War began the Akavir come to destroy the dragons after learning of the prophesy of Aldurin the World-Eater. So my theory is that this takes place at the end of the Merethic Era and Beginning of the 1st Era. Now I have yet to read the book The Dragon War, so I may have my facts scrambled, but we could also say that the ancient Nords destroyed as much of the history of the Dragon War as possible in order to prevent dark forces summoning such a threat to mankind.

The Akaviri (that is, the Tsaesci. Snow demons came earlier but didn't seem to care about Dragons) didn't come to Tamriel until the late First Era.

Most of the history was probably lost- I would imagine a great deal of the history was stored in Dragon Language, and was probably destroyed (all the Burnt Books and such laying around). But the Journal of Skrom Snow-Strider would help indicate that the Dragon War was definitely before 1E 139, and not long before.



So definitely post-Ysgramor. Most likely early First Era, late Merithic Era.

Nothing about that says "definitely post-Ysgramor"
He could just as well be speaking about a cult he thought destroyed ages ago, even before men came to Atmora. In fact, the use of "it sounds impossible" to me implies it was long before, if it was in the recent past nothing about dragon cultists holding out would be impossible.

I'm inclined to agree, but it does imply post-Ysgramor from the mentions to him. The language just doesn't draw a direct link.

However, I was just playing through the MQ again and noticed that near the beginning of it, when you deliver the Dragonstone from Bleak Falls Barrow to the court wizard of Whiterun and he's talking to Delphine, he makes some mention of the date of the Dragon War relative to the text he's examining, which I believe he places as early First Era.
It's worth noting that the book has text in the dragon script alongside english. Has anyone gotten around to translating draconic yet, btw?