Anyone else disappointed with the conjuration system in Oblivion? Wouldn't you have liked to spawn multiple creatures? Perhaps some permanent ones? It could be balanced by removing a little of your available mana (so, if you have 500, and a permanent summon requires 75, when you'll summon the creature, it follows you around, but you only have 425 mana to use).
Discuss away!

Never used it, found it boring and useless. Much prefered fighting myself.

So yes in my opinion it needs an overhaul

Summoning Static creatures was the bane of Conjuration.

Conjured creatures should be somewhat tied (Leveled, if you would) with the sorcerer. Obviously something like a Scamp would scale less drastically than a Daedroth or Golden Saint, but I wish there was more reason to be a "Tactical" conjurer. You know, summoning Flame Atronachs to fight Frost Atronachs.

I think I'd like to see less hard "Caps" on creature time. Maybe I'm alone, but It'd be better if conjured creatures had a "Perpetuation Cost" of sorts, but you can keep them around until you run out of magicka, or they die (Or you release them). If they die though, to incentivize "Releasing" the creature, you suffer a sort of "Mana shock" that saps a percentage of the creatures base cost immediately from your pool.

I think you should be able to summon and designate one creature as a "Familiar"... it has a permanent magicka cost to summon, but you can dismiss or recall it at any time. It would also level with you. It cannot be one of the "Greater Daedric Spirits" such as Dremora Lord or Xivilai.

But, it should also be possible to summon mutliple other creatures that aren't leveled, with duration reduced by the number and strength of the creatures in play. So, it could be more economical to summon 5 Scamps than 3 Flame Atronachs.

I like the way Oblivion's "L.A.M.E." mod fixes magic, though I think it makes it a bit too powerful.

Like this? i posted it in a similar thread some weeks ago IIRC.

Its A great Idea to have an overhaul... There are so many possibilities for the Conjuration school to endevour.,

The OP seems to be suggesting something not all too dissimilar from how Ranger specialised Rogues in Dragon Age Origins summoned animals - just draining some of their stamina (the 'mana' bar for them - differs from ES IV fatigue).

They then lasted until canceled or killed. Or if you left the area, but that seemed to be more of an oversight than a gameplay facet.

I agree that in oblivion it basically came down to how fast you could get to summoning a dremora lord and then you would never touch the others again. When your magic only differentiates with damage and AOE it makes it actually seem less powerful and dry. Not very interesting at that point.

I'd like to see a greater variety of summons I'm able to conjure. Some of the more"magical" woodland creatures come to mind, such as imps, minotaurs, and will-O-the wisps

Conjuration has needed an overhaul since Morrowind. I really hope they actually do something to improve it this time for Skyrim. If they did I'd use it over destruction in a heartbeat.

not a bad way to balance out perm summones. like it requires that bit of magicka dedicated to keep it bound to this world. the stronger the summon the greater amount of magicka would be required to keep it bound.

Definitely needs an overhaul. Conjuration could have so much more depth than it had originally. The summoning creatures was cool. I mean, you got pretty much what it said you would. For most people starting out, it was useful to have that skeleton in the arena the first go around.

Turning undead was useless (just kill them or run away) and the summoned weapons and armor were rather poor. Yes, they had no weight, but weight was never really an issue.

Here is what I am thinking:

Summoning of multiple creatures who have different combat characteristics. I very much like the idea of strategy behind summoning. I think some creatures should focus more on sticking close and defending you, or shooting projectiles, or cloaking and going for a backstab, or fighting along side you in a humanoid fashion, etc. Think about it, a shielded dremora who provides ground support while you fire arrows from the safety of his rear; Or a pack of skeleton archers who spread out and chip away at your enemy with arrows while you fling spells or charge in for your own attacks with melee weapons. Maybe you are sneaking through a dungeon and have to neutralize multiple targets without alerting either of them. You could summon a creature that would be stealthy and follow simple but specific orders such as "Sneak attack on target" or "follow me and attack when I do." Similiar to the commands you give followers in oblivion.

Bound weapons could mold to your combat characteristics. The more you use bound claymore, the more damage it should come to do as your skill in both blade and conjuration go up. Or the more you use a bound shield, the better knockback it gains. Think of it as bound weapons and armor gaining experience along side you. It makes sense given that a powerful mage should be able to summon very refined creatures, weapons, and armor that have molded to her or his personality and skill level.


Also, a sort of off the wall idea I had was a blood sacrifice type spell. Maybe you can absorb the soul and body of a summoned creature in order to gain power for yourself. Could be an interesting strategy if you summon the wrong creature or you are about to die and need to improvise and gain some health or speed for yourself. Perhaps give the ability to sacrifice level dependent daedra that you did not summon. Perhaps a conjuration twist on command creature.

Exactly, I had Zevran in that game as a Ranger, but was extremely annoyed that my pets would disappear after zoning, and that Mages had no summons (except that pathetic reanimate dead). I really hope for a better Conjuration system in Skyrim. Oh, and have the ability to make Bound Armor permanent (without glitching, mind you) as well. Having so many "sustainables," if you will, should also drain your fatigue bar a bit. It would be well worth it, though, as a master conjurer would never require heavy armor training or any followers.

Into the perma summons, not into the having it give a long term dent to your magicka. The lore doesn't suggest that is required. Do the summons correctly, carefully perform the rituals to bind the pact, huge danger if it goes wrong, but if it goes correctly, viola, no problem.

I would be in support of the Daedra OCCASSIONALLY testing the summoner in an attempt to break free, and at these points there could be a noted strain on the casters magicka (perhaps the bonds of the spell need to be re-strengthened, requiring magicka etc.) but you should not have to walk around gimped as a mage for the entire duration of a permenant summons.

I'm not a Mage, I'm a Thief.....and I remember being scared out of my socks whenever i had to steal from
the Telvanni Sorcerers.
Those were some scary dudes...and i knew if they caught me stealing their awesome crap that they
would quickly turn my head into a water balloon or summon some friggin weird zombie thing to eat
my face off.

But that actually made it more fun to play. So if your going to make them more powerful and freakin scary
I'm all for it.

Also,.....I HATED the Wizard Dungeons...

Yea you could summon multiple in morrowind.

Even multiple of the same creature if you made it a separate spell.

I LOVE conjuration and always liked spawning things to fight for me and would really like a permanent summon

I would like to see the ability to control multiple summons at higher levels of the skill (or perk related) and the ability to summon your conjuration onto a target and that target switches its focus to the summon.

I'm curious to see what kind of perks we get. The top level conjuration perk should be for permanent summons IMO. Better creature AI and pathfinding would also be a blessing. It's no good when your summon gets stuck in a rock for half the spell length.

This idea right here
I love it
do that and ill be happy

I expect summons this time will be limits not by time but health. As for multiple summons I expect that will be part of a perk tree branch.

multiple creatures being spawned wouldn't work because it would nerf the combat.. one dremora lord could kill anything if i did three of those it would bee to easy

With spells being able to combine, will Fire Frost and Storm Atronach be unique spells or just (Atronach + Fire)? If a we can make a fire shield with Fire + Shield what about Chameleon + Scamp?

I don't think it would work that way. Atronachs are essentially elemental Daedra, and they pretty much come as they are. If you summon a flesh Atronach, I don't think setting it on fire will make it a fire Atronach. Pretty sure it will just either piss it off or else banish it back into Oblivion.

I'm more worried about the second half of Ermine Violinist's post.
Invisible scamps.
*shudder*

I think the whole spell system needs an overhall, not just conjuration. They capped the spell system way too much in Oblivion IMO with mainly single effect spells and enchants for some things like armor. Also not being able to delete spells made for a messy spell list. Hope they really fix the whole system this time around.