I agree with you Connary. If you don't want to release your work for fear of theft, then don't. I'd really like to see your work, but people have got to get the notion out of their heads that it is normal to steal people's work in the modding scene. I'm not saying people here would necessarily do such a thing, I just think their attitude is screwed up. In actuality, I think people here would hound/shun anyone caught stealing your work.

I think since you changed the meshes and created your own textures you can protect the mod. The only part you can't protect are the ESPs (I think). Usually, with a mod, Bethesda would own the rights to it. However, it is different with things such as textures, meshes, or anything not inside an ESP/ESM.

I would think you could add a license into the download. I'm not saying it would stop everyone, but it would definitely stop people from using your work commercially (like Evony did with Microsoft's Age of Empires 2). I would also consider contacting Bethesda and asking for help with this issue. Since it is such a monumental mod, they may help you out.

It is not normal!
There are way more original or rightly credited mods compared to those ripped off. Heck, I can think of just a few mods that ripped off others work. So I don't understand how this is normal.

The action is not what I'm saying is normal. The sentiment that it will happen is.

Also, I agree with you, there are more that do things the correct way than the wrong way. Thankfully.

From the looks of it, one can register works online with the US copyright office relatively inexpensively, though it might take a while to upload all of the images - plus they might need to be converted to a different format (though presumably Connary's originals aren't .dds). Still, looks doable without immense expense, and while it takes a long while to receive a certificate, registration is effective from the date od upload.

Connary lives in Spain.

Yes, I know, but copyright is relatively international and the US is a big market and (I think) may be one of the few that requires registration for court cases. Maybe not, but there is a European equivalent.

I agree with this 100% I?m a stranger here I know but I use several mods many mods made by many of you. And of course I?ve downloaded every mod and replacement that connary put on PES. And I?ve proyects of my own wich I?ve work for 5 years now..., and I think..., that even if I got plans to use fan made stuff in my proyect I?ld never doit without permision, but then again..., If after all the efort to release something I made with joy and I "me romp? el culo", wich means I busted my ass to make... I would be angry and frustrated that some jerk who got it for free and just has to ask permition would use it claiming it?s his... But and this is only my pinion, you are an artist, and a good one, take this from an artist on paper, to an artist on PC, I can draw amasing things, and I can charge them with pasion and that is mine and everyone knows it?s mine, someone can stole and chane the name of an image friend, but what we put in that image is us alone and can?t be taken can?t be copied, and can?t be stolen, everyone knows your work, and the minute someone calims it as his own, we all would expose that peron like the fraud he/her is... So what I say is..., don?t let peop`le with no emotion kill your emotion, you are an artist and artists do art cause they know it can?t be stolen.

Hope this has been a constructive opinion to you, and even if you chose never to release the Compendium well I and I guess every one out there who has seen your work would understand.

I don't think we should turn this into a copyright discussion - that's a much too sophisticated subject for our needs. What we need to do is to help each other, such way that, if any attempt of thievery is found, it should be immediately reported and subsequently banned by the community. Copyright should be something we need not worry about, for as long as we keep our ranks tight. Frauds and thieves will exist for as long as Earth will spin around the Sun and there isn't much we can do about it, especially in a virtual environment (such as the Web), where everyone can be anyone (and vice-versa).

Here's a few things that should be considered before waving the "copyright" word: ethics, morals, fairness, education, friendship... Apply these in our day-to-day conduct and there will be less a**holes to pray on others' work... And people like Connary can release their (amazing) work without worrying too much...

Cheers,
PKR.
PS: Don't get me wrong - I'm not some sort of a hippie preacher and I don't live in a world of utopy. I'm rather the guy who'd break the leg of a thief when caught on stealing! It's just that one should first try better/more civilised methods - especially when you can't break the thiefs legs for as long as he's hiding behind "the web"...

Indeed. Of course, technically in most countries an artist retains copyright automatically without needing to register - registration appears to simply be extra proof, necessary for some court cases (apparently in the US prior registration is required to obtain legal fees rather than just lost profits and damages). So, it may not be all that necessary, but doesn't appear to necessarily be all that difficult or expensive if one is so inclined. And of course, even if one is registered, anything can be "stolen" - so in a community like this it pretty much comes down to what you describe.

*shrugs* I just got a little interested in the subject after the whole thing last night.

The cheap mans method is burning it to a CD, and post it to yourself and do not open the envelope. This is your way out in court. I have actually done this at one point with an idea I had way back.

uhm...couldn't you just write it and put it in an envelope and claim you wrote the CD like...two years ago? :unsure:

am I missing something?

Of course, having it hosted on multiple sites and used by countless people might be some degree of proof as well. *chuckle* With the creation of internet registration, it seems like the "poor man's copyright" is a little less necessary, but hey, worth a try as wel eh?

Once the envelope goes through the mail it has an official governmental time-stamp (of sorts),
thus proving, if unopened, that the idea is safeguarded (multiple copies are best). While this is
not the most legally binding method, it would serve as an artistic proof :nod: . I do not know how
well this works with digitial media, but for physical media it is a quick and dirty method of maintaining
propriety over the content .

Ah, I didn't think of that.

I think your a mind reader because you took away everything I was thinking

Another thing though is, you modders need to put more faith in us the community. We barely even get the chance to react before tempers go flying, people are talking about leaving, copywright etc.

I share connary's dilemma .... I think textures are the most vulnerable content of all & I've been working on my own giant texture project for well over a year & after the events of late I don't know what I'm going to do either.

honestly I don't think there is a way to truly control content once its "in the wild" so to speak. (other than not releasing any)

The sad part is there is nothing to keep the the kind of person who will steal content from just going underground with the project (like the Oblivion POEE guy actually said he would do)

I'm still going to release mods myself .... just not textures ..... at least for a while ... & I hope connary finds a way feel confident enough to keep modding as I'm as big a fan as the rest of you.

I've been on vacation for the last few weeks. What is this" the events of late" everyones talking about? Also maybe we should go ahead and start a thread about it as I think we'll starting to high jack Connary's Thread.

This is meant in the utmost respect for the modders of the TES Community.

It's NOT the people who steal from you that suffer when you hold back releases.

They'll just find another person to steal from. Or rip content directly out of other games (which happened in this community years ago).

Who suffers (outside of obviously the mod owner) is the normal supportive user that did nothing to the mod owner except for support their endeavors. I repeat...The thief does not care. They will find another victims mod to steal from. This is the mentality, even if they don't mean it maliciously, or believe that because it's free... it's free of responsibility.

And now Connary's work is gone. New and returning TES 3'ers (myself included) won't be able to understand why they couldn't use a mod that other people got to.

It's always been a plague on the TES community and every 2 years it seems like we get a whole new load of people in, who end up having the exact same problems over and over again and eventually get like this. Debating on whether to release stuff because of a few never-do-wells.

I feel it's a good thing The Beatles, The Who, The Doors, Run DMC and every other big band didn't debate whether to break up because they found out people were selling bootleg 45's, cd's and 8-traks out of a car trunk. My respect goes out to musicians who persisted through mass piracy.

And the same goes for modders who keep the fortitude to continue modding for the love of the game and the community.

Connary, if you don't release your compendium mod, will you upload the rest of your mods to PES? I was looking forward to trying all of your mods.

True, there is no way to truly control content once its "in the wild" but so what? The same is true of everything everything ever published. I think it is pretty clear that people around here generally don't put up with that sort of thing, and if one is incredibly concerned about use of textures (say, for commercial purposes) they can resort to the aforementioned copyright methods. *shrugs*

Sometimes I think it would be nice if Bethesda released a Gold version of Morrowind like Atari did with CIV 3 - which included many of the communities favourite mods - then copyright issues could be taken up with Bethesda instead of individual modders.

I'm not really sure I'd like to download a really huge mod only to find that I was restricted in posting screenshots of it though - which is what I picked up from your post - that you were worried textures could be pirated from the screenshots?

Have really enjoyed Connary's work and have been looking forward to it very much - however if it doesn't happen then that's ok .

If the previous textures are not re-uploaded then I suspect another texture artist will come along to fill the gap - Plangkye's telvanni work was great and was one of the most popular mods on PES for a while - Nich's rocks and trees were unexpected and very good and there were some very good mesh improvements by armed_defender.

That said I do feel very sorry for you Connary, all the hours you must of put into this which must be in the hundreds, only to be frustrated at last moment.

If it ever is released I hope you get added to the Bethblog modder interviews. Which is a hall of fame in itself.

I'm not a fan of this idea, or compilations in general. Mainly because, if you release a compilation, there are mods that are *left out* because they do the same thing as the mod chosen for the compilation.

Part of getting mods is being able to choose and customize between thousands of mods, what the modding community has done is amazing, we've made Morrowind a fully customizable game, if there's something you want added/changed or removed, it's possible to do so with choice. Releasing a compilation would ruin that.

Anyways, I think that's the main reason I don't like compilations, feel free to disagree with me if you want to, but that's how I feel.

Guys, I guess I am confused by this.

As one of the main contributors of Better Heads (i.e. Arathrax/Darksharp)...I could care less if someone used my work in their mods (and they do).
Even if they didn't credit me or Gorg or Rhedd or Motoki, it just isn't a huge deal to me. If anything it's flattering. Ultimately, all I care about is that the game is all the better for it.
My intention when starting Better Heads with Gorg was not to make a name for myself, it was simply to replace those cringe-worthy vanilla faces or hairs.
So this attitude about copyrighting and trying to protect one's work for a publicly modded game really befuddles me.

I also work in the game industry as a lead artist at a pretty big studio/publisher...and yes, when it's a commercial endeavor, and many people are being paid huge amounts of money to generate content and assets, by all means that work is protected by law and owned by the studio. But when it's a single person or a couple people and they are doing something for a community, and there is no profit (or expense other than time)...I am kind of baffled by this attitude of "due to the internet being what it is, then I am going to hold onto all my work".

If you want to protect your work and you're THAT good, either start a studio or join one, or freelance with one of the outsourcing companies like Liquid or Nikitova.

That being said, Connary, I urge you to share your wonderful work with the community. You've worked too hard and long (not to mention how many of us have been salivating for this) to let such a game changing major-mod just sit on your PC.

P.S. Let me know if I am missing any important points, that Connary was making.

I think that Connary is more worried about his textures being used in a commercial sense, which I would dare say is a nonissue.

His textures, at least some of them are from outside sources, not for resale, which I could understand why he would be concerned about them being "stolen", however, since liability wouldn't be on him since he has never tried for financial gain from his texture releases, I don't see it as a problem myself, but regardless, its his decision to make on what to do.

Best wishes,
Matilija

Piense por favor su l?nea de conducta a trav?s cuidadosamente. Qu? muchos otros han dicho en este hilo de rosca son verdades, no castigue el fiel muchos para algunos ladrones. Cu?nto tiempo he esperado como los otros, para su mod con la anticipaci?n. Todo lo que usted est? haciendo est? lastimando a los que amen su trabajo, nada la voluntad viene si usted se va.