THE MASS MAJORITY OF THE MULTIPLAYER PROBLEMS COMES FROM THE HIT DETECTION.

Even on the PC where we get away from the Auto aim crap. HIT DETECTION and Net Code is still a joke. I hate those random headshots from bullet sprays.


PC just got a patch. Didn't it address connectivity issues.

PLUS

Aren't PC players on dedicated servers anyway?

Back again to constantly bring up the main problem in the multiplayer. As I constantly preach, hit detection in the #1 problem with multiplayer. I'm going to try and crudely explain the differences between demo and retail versions of the multiplayer with simple examples along why stating why the retail version is horrible for multiplayer. Alright if I could explain the demo version of hit detection in a simple explanation and example, it would be along the lines of these 2 examples:

Instead of letting the player control their reticule in the 3d- plane(cubed room), Crytek in turn made the ADS bullets a 2-d plane.(vertical wall). When a player is able to move their reticule in a 3d-plane, it makes it so the player bullets have to be in 1 localized area for registration. It's almost in a sense like a buried treasure( X marks the spot) with the buried treasure marked as a killing zone if the player steps in that position. With this type of hit registration, precision has to be consistent and accurate to drop a target , which means player input has to decisive. Since precision is a must, it allows for human error which a target can respond and capitalize off of in a shootout. Spraying won't work because it'll only send a minuscule amount of bullets towards the target. This was the demo hit registration and it kept everything in balance. A simple example of this is a giant bingo board as the ground. Say the target is standing on d2 square, the player has to aim and focus on that d2 square to drop them.

Now since the ADS is a 2-plane, it completely changes the rules of the scenario. Instead of having a small windowed killzone,( buried treasure/X marks the spot/bingo square), it in turn makes a killzone for every bullet fired.Imagine an area where there 1 big giant X on the ground for every bullet that stretches out till the bullets vanish. This in turn makes spraying way too viable as a shooting mechanic. It makes maximum armor extremely inneffective and it makes strafing far less effective. Add of top of the autolock ADS , then you have the a real bland shooting mechanic for a multiplayer experience. A simple example of how this works is a giant lawn sprinkler. Imagine the sprinkler going side to side covering the whole lawn. The sprinkler doesn't focus on 1 localized area, instead it covers the whole area.

GIVE PLAYERS THE 2ND DEMO HIT REGISTRATION & A MASS MAJORITY OF THE BALANCING ISSUES WILL BE CROSSED OF THE LIST

THE MASS MAJORITY OF THE MULTIPLAYER PROBLEMS COMES FROM THE HIT DETECTION.

Even on the PC where we get away from the Auto aim crap. HIT DETECTION and Net Code is still a joke. I hate those random headshots from bullet sprays.


PC just got a patch. Didn't it address connectivity issues.

PLUS

Aren't PC players on dedicated servers anyway?

Yes, but there patches are not doing much. You think Dedicated Servers solve everything console noob. THEY DON'T WHEN THE NET CODE AND HIT DETECTION ARE STILL CRAP.

Even on the PC where we get away from the Auto aim crap. HIT DETECTION and Net Code is still a joke. I hate those random headshots from bullet sprays.


PC just got a patch. Didn't it address connectivity issues.

PLUS

Aren't PC players on dedicated servers anyway?

Yes, but there patches are not doing much. You think Dedicated Servers solve everything console noob. THEY DON'T WHEN THE NET CODE AND HIT DETECTION ARE STILL CRAP.

Even though your blunt as hell, I agree. Everybody think dedicated servers are going to fix all these issues when it the hit detection mechanics that need to be put under a microscope. Putting a clean diaper over a dirty diaper doesn't fix anything. Anyway, which decision would Crytek mostly chose for consoles? Dedicated servers or a better situated hit detection system from an earlier demo build? It's a no brainer for me.

I turned aim assist off and reduced the sensitivity to 15. I'm a sniper and I destroy people. I was forced to change the sensitivity to compensate my skill with the speed of players. This game was screwing up my accuracy big time. Now the last time I played I scored 18-1 based on skill alone. This included seeing cloaked dudes, campers and pre-empting where the players were going to be a second later. But the question is should I have to have gone to such lengths to make the game playable for me?

I turned aim assist off and reduced the sensitivity to 15. I'm a sniper and I destroy people. I was forced to change the sensitivity to compensate my skill with the speed of players. This game was screwing up my accuracy big time. Now the last time I played I scored 18-1 based on skill alone. This included seeing cloaked dudes, campers and pre-empting where the players were going to be a second later. But the question is should I have to have gone to such lengths to make the game playable for me?

Exactly what I'm saying. This game doesn't allow players to control the reticule in a 3-d plane so player can l lead/anticipate where the targets going to be. You had to turn your sensitivity down for sniping but will now be in a severe disadvantage in a close range shootout. No middle ground if you want to do consistent in mid-close range combat. They had the hit detection right in the 2nd demo but we got the campaign aim assist for the retail.

Bumping again out of frustration from a game I just had. Just got off instant action and I was killed in the game winning kill. I think there is nothing wrong with that occurance BUT there was 1 thing wrong with the whole situation. I was killed randomly with a headshot that wasn't even targeted at me. The player was literally swaying his gun back and forth at another player like 100 feet away from me and 1 random bullet came my direction and killed me.

Seriously, Crytek? I try to be constructive with my criticism but did you even test this current hit detection system in multiplayer before shipping the disc? This hit detection basically guarantees a kill if you have someone aimed down the sites. It's funny all the times you claim that the nanosuit is a game changer and that it's molds your multiplayer into something that stands out from other games yet with this hit detection I feel just like wearing a cheap $50 suit. What's the point of having a fancy state of the art suit when the games hit detection undermines the suit's abilities. This hit detection has turned your stand out game into a Call of Duty clone. Your game had a unique twist on the multiplayer in the 2nd demo and the hit detection was the foundation for it.

The 2nd demos hit detection allowed for all facets of gameplay. A player could run and gun only using armor and energy managment, stealth kills actually worked consistently, cloaking was an option/ not a necessity, a player could take on multiple targets at once and still could win shootout with their aim was consistent. Each weapon dominated in niche but could still be taken out if the other player's input was decisive. Not only has the retail hit detection has ruined the weapon balance but it also ruined the nanosuit's module balances.

Crytek I don't know if you reading the forums anymore, but I do know this. THE HIT DETECTION IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THE MULTIPLAYER. It completely ruins the balancing in the multiplayer aspect and quick hotfixes aren't going to change a thing. It completely destroys the uniqueness to your multiplayer. Give players the 2nd demo's hit registration and a mass majority of the balancing issues will be crossed off the list and it will allow all playing aspects of your game to flourish again. If not your game will stay a monotonous I see your first you die gameplay which shows because players are leaving the game because of this aiming handicap.

The more I post in this thread the more I feel like a writing a book, journal or thesis about the hit detection. Well in this chapter we're going to talk about the current autolock system, lol. Currently as I explained numerous times before, when a player ADS(aim down sites), it makes the player aim their bullets in a 2-d plane( a vertical wall). The player controls their bullet trajectory from a stationary position of 4 directions. Example of this is like a compass but standing straight up vertically. In other words, Up Down Left Right. Now the current aim assist does one major thing to this aiming system. It almost basically eliminates the need for 2 major directional inputs(y axis)that the player has control of. In order words, the game doesn't require the player to operate the up and down input of the reticule stick to aim. They just need move the stick left or right to drop the target when they are aiming down sites.

Now think about this. If this game makes aiming so nonchalant and carefree, what's going to happen the balance with automatic weapons? I know sure as hell it won't be for the benefit of the game. Everything in this game has a domino effect and we're feeling the after effects with the current hit registration. I'm going to keep stating this quote because it it necessary for your game to have any sort of balance Crytek. GIVE PLAYERS THE 2ND DEMO'S REGISTRATION AND A MASS MAJORITY OF THE BALANCING ISSUES WILL BE CROSSED OFF THE LIST.

I'm going to constantly bring up reasons why the hit detection is major reason for most of the multiplayer's shortcomings as off right now. As I stated in all the prior post in this thread, Crytek's decision to incorporate the current 2-d ADS has had a negative domino effect on the multiplayer. As stated in the post above, the current aim assist eliminates the player's ability to control their up&down aspects of input on their reticule stick on their controller. Not only does this current aim system makes locking on a target a guarantee, it basically gives a player aiming down sites a 10 year warranty with bonus gifts along of the target's death. The reason I say this because the bullets constantly travel past the target if the player wasn't aware enough to actually hit the target with the abudant aim assist. So not only is the target in danger but all the general area where the target currently standing at.

Ok, so now this aiming system is basically stating, "Just move the stick to the left or right and we'll do the rest." What's a player to do to try and stay alive? The aiming system is so undemanding that armor basically has no kind of consistent value and will become depleted instantly due to the aim assist. What does that leave a player to use? I'm sure everyone whose reading guessed the answer to the question easily, CLOAK. If a opponent can't see me, he won't be able to autolock on me but I can autolock on the other player easily. Simple right. Now see how hit detection is slowly unbalancing the modules. This hit detection favors I see your first you die gameplay(**cough Call of Duty cough**), add the ability to cloak and you have the current unbalanced experience we have now. A majority of players pour all their experience into the cloaking modules due to the quick death hit detection.

I don't think it's wrong for a player to play the sneaker beaver role with the cloak. It's part of the game and should be optional if a player wants to excel in that type of playing. However, it should not be forced down a player throat to be able to perform consistently well in playing mutliplayer. Each assets of the suit should have it's plus and negative. Cloak's positives outweigh it's negatives and armors negatives currently outweighs it's positives and it's all due to the hit detection. I didn't buy this game to play ghostbusters, constanly looking around every nook and cranny for someone whose invisible. There is more than one way to adapt to a situation and the 2nd demo's hit detection allowed that. I'm going to keep stating this quote until I brainwash everybody.

GIVE PLAYERS THE 2ND DEMO'S HIT REGISTRATION AND A MASS MAJORITY OF THE BALANCING ISSUES WILL BE CROSSED OFF THE LIST.

I agree 1 million%. I was playing on the DLC 2 days ago and i unload on this camper, as im shooting im getting hit markers left and right. So, i think to myself "well its only a matter of time before you go down you prick" but i run out of ammo of course and he shoots me 4-5 times with a scarab and destroys me.

As i watch the kill cam, i notice my bullets passing by his head with only a few from a whole scar clip hitting him *sigh*

Yeah the demo 2.0 was loads of fun even with the two maps... thanks to no aim assist and that thing you guys are talking about cause i don't know what to call it...

I always thought the hit detection was lame. The demo felt more consistent. I could kill people better too. I literally managed to go around shooting people with the M12 Nova and melee people AND WIN. It's still a crappy gun too yet somehow I go down as quickly as though I'm up against a SCAR.

I agree 1 million%. I was playing on the DLC 2 days ago and i unload on this camper, as im shooting im getting hit markers left and right. So, i think to myself "well its only a matter of time before you go down you prick" but i run out of ammo of course and he shoots me 4-5 times with a scarab and destroys me.

As i watch the kill cam, i notice my bullets passing by his head with only a few from a whole scar clip hitting him *sigh*

Yea, all of these trouble would have been avoided if Crytek gave us the 2nd demo's hit registration. The spray and pray hit registration we have now completely lowers the ceiling gap and playing options towards the game.

Yeah the demo 2.0 was loads of fun even with the two maps... thanks to no aim assist and that thing you guys are talking about cause i don't know what to call it...

I agree that demo was fun without a shadow of doubt but it was also balanced. It was what convinced me to buy the game on the 1st day. The thing of it though, was it did have aim assist but it didn't favor spraying but rather precision. The 2nd demo aim assist had autolock and slight reticule magnetism when aim down sites but the player didn't control the bullets flightpath in a 2-d plane when they were firing. If a player has a 2d-plane of bullets, it makes every bullet fired a killzone which means every bullet that misses the target can still kill a player in the target's general direction. They could be to the left, front, right or behind, all are acceptable to the misplaced fire and there's a big window for misplaced fire.

In the demo, the players control their bullets flight path in a 3d-plane which meant that they only had a small killing zone when they were shooting.(see the post on the 3 page for like a crude explanation). The breakdown of the both hit registrations goes like this. The demo's hit registration says, "Ok, we're going to give you autolock and reticule magnetism, BUT, we're only going to give you a small 3-d plane killzone in return." The retail version breakdown like this, "Ok, we'll give you autolock, magnetism along with a giant killzone due to the 2-d bullet flight path so you can spray and hit multiple targets easily. "

One of many reasons I came up with this theory was my accuracy leaderboard from both demo and retail. I remembered my accuracy was around 29% in the demo and that was with run'n-gun'n with just armor and energy management. However in the retail version, my accuracy I remember is around 34% with twice as much gametime. What does that tell you? This current hit registration basically guarantees that you'll drop the target if you have them aim down the sites. Accuracy take a backseat to how many bullets I can fire in the target's general direction.

I always thought the hit detection was lame. The demo felt more consistent. I could kill people better too. I literally managed to go around shooting people with the M12 Nova and melee people AND WIN. It's still a crappy gun too yet somehow I go down as quickly as though I'm up against a SCAR.

Exactly. I loved the demo for the reason. Each player could bring out more potential to their weapons. The current hit registration does the opposite. THe weapons bring out the potential of the players, which sadly in this case, a low ceiling height.

I do have to say though that the hit detection in the demo was perfect. It was better but not perfect. the hit detection is my no-one gripe with this game. How does a guy melee me from a few feet away? How does a dude melee me twice and I die? How can I shoot a dude 3 times with my majestic then melee twice and survive then melee me twice; killing me. Sigh.

On my few laggy games (luckily rare) The hit detection takes a turn for the worse where I snipe a guy and get the head and he doesn't die and turns to shoot me - actually turns and JUST before he can shoot me he dies. Call that close.

Why can't they just bring back the Demo Mechanics? it is why I brought the game. I had no issues playing it at all. Was disappointed to load up the retail game just to find it didn't play anything like the Demo did. The demo is what we thought we were getting as far as online was concerned.
How did the game change so much between the 24-48 hours of it being taken offline and the game being sold?

They obviously had to of had the game already pressed and boxed, so the changes were made well in advance of the demo ending.

It boggles my mind how they went about this honestly.

I honestly just have one thing to say... And i will need my flame-suit for this.

Adapt.

I honestly just have one thing to say... And i will need my flame-suit for this.

Adapt.

I think you are here just to be flamed buddy.

How about some intelligent argument to why we are wrong, than posting in every thread "adapt"

Obvious troll is obvious.

I honestly just have one thing to say... And i will need my flame-suit for this.

Adapt.

I think you are here just to be flamed buddy.

How about some intelligent argument to why we are wrong, than posting in every thread "adapt"

Obvious troll is obvious.

First I'm not a troll. Second, the things you complain about is kinda something i learnt to adapt into. Like when you understand the nano-suit and how to use it then this game becomes smooth as hell. And it might be as Brink, some people have issues with graphic and some don't. And i don't have the online issues you do. EU might have better servers or it's my 100/100 line.

I honestly just have one thing to say... And i will need my flame-suit for this.

Adapt.

I think you are here just to be flamed buddy.

How about some intelligent argument to why we are wrong, than posting in every thread "adapt"

Obvious troll is obvious.

First I'm not a troll. Second, the things you complain about is kinda something i learnt to adapt into. Like when you understand the nano-suit and how to use it then this game becomes smooth as hell. And it might be as Brink, some people have issues with graphic and some don't. And i don't have the online issues you do. EU might have better servers or it's my 100/100 line.

Well first of all Crysis 2 on xbox is Peer to Peer hosting, we don't have servers.

I have played the game since the demo, I understand as most people who played how the suit and game works.
As a gamer of quite a few years I know when a game is broken and lagged to hell and when it is my own poor skill.

Tell me how do I adapt to players not being where my screen shows them to be?
How do I adapt to shooting people having hits appearing to register just to have them not die?
How do I adapt to a single stray bullet aimed at someone else killing me from across the map?
How do I adapt to unloading a full clip into someone point blank who is NOT armoured just to be killed when they turn around and shoot me in the groin.
How do I adapt to people aim hacking?
I know I'll just pull the trigger and spin around!!! That'll get me some kills. After all the way my controller sensitivity has gone spinning around won't be a problem.

If the game works for you that's great. For the rest of us, we can't adapt to random broken bullsh1t.

Maybe for some reason I have lost my motor functions between the demo and the full release and not noticed it yet huh?

Sorry telling people to adapt when they have obvious real "software" problems, seems like trolling to me. Especially when it's put into a single word response.

Why can't they just bring back the Demo Mechanics? it is why I brought the game. I had no issues playing it at all. Was disappointed to load up the retail game just to find it didn't play anything like the Demo did. The demo is what we thought we were getting as far as online was concerned.
How did the game change so much between the 24-48 hours of it being taken offline and the game being sold?

They obviously had to of had the game already pressed and boxed, so the changes were made well in advance of the demo ending.

It boggles my mind how they went about this honestly.

QFT. I felt somewhat swindled from the demo to the retail with the unnecessary changes Crytek did with the retail build of the game.

First I'm not a troll. Second, the things you complain about is kinda something i learnt to adapt into. Like when you understand the nano-suit and how to use it then this game becomes smooth as hell. And it might be as Brink, some people have issues with graphic and some don't. And i don't have the online issues you do. EU might have better servers or it's my 100/100 line.

I guess you didn't read any of the posting I did for the past 4 pages. I have broken down all the so called unbalances everyone has been clamoring about in this forum and all of them have their roots in hit detection. Now I have no problem with people disagreeing with me if they can bring something evidential to their statements but a simple "adapt," isn't helping your case buddy. I have already adapted to the new gameplay. If I can give a clear breakdown all of negative effects of the current hit detection system current entails, that'll be somewhat "clear" statement that the player has an understanding of the gameplay.

To be blunt with you without any offense of course, I don't even think your grasping the concept of what I'm talking about to even have any opinion on it yet. Servers have absolutely nothing to deal with the hit detection because this game has client side hit detection. This game runs of a p2p host system so that statement alone you just made isn't helping you out any. Just because I have qualms with the hit detection doesn't mean I can't kill anybody. It's the opposite as a matter of fact. This game makes shooting way too easy, which if you read all the pages prior is what I've been trying to raise awareness off.

I'm in no way a competitive gamer, try hard or a MLG pro. I enjoy a game that is balanced where I can learn from my mistakes so I can become better which is fun to me or in other words " adapting." The hit detection in this game doesn't allow that.

Also, I would love for you to explain what you mean by "adapt." Let me guess, abuse the stealth modules? Run around killing players with energy transfer to stay actively in stealth in the entire time? Please explain how that is balanced? All I'm trying to do is get Crytek to completely balance the gameplay to allow all functions of the suit to be able to excel in their according purposes. Why should stealth alone yield high scores? Why can't armor? Or the airstomp? Why can't the armor's modules actually have as an effective strategy as the cloak? It's all because of the hit detection and if the 2nd demo's hit registration is applied it'll help balance the modules along with balancing of the weapons.

I was also wondering what's your opinion on the hit detection if you think it's ok right now? Chances are if you don't have problems with it, I would have 2 guesses to why you like it the way it is. 1) You attitude is non-chalant and you don't care about any discrepancies about kill/death outcomes 2) You enjoy the easy kill system that comes along with the aim assist and would prefer to keep it that way.

Yeah the demo 2.0 was loads of fun even with the two maps... thanks to no aim assist and that thing you guys are talking about cause i don't know what to call it...

I agree that demo was fun without a shadow of doubt but it was also balanced. It was what convinced me to buy the game on the 1st day. The thing of it though, was it did have aim assist but it didn't favor spraying but rather precision. The 2nd demo aim assist had autolock and slight reticule magnetism when aim down sites but the player didn't control the bullets flightpath in a 2-d plane when they were firing. If a player has a 2d-plane of bullets, it makes every bullet fired a killzone which means every bullet that misses the target can still kill a player in the target's general direction. They could be to the left, front, right or behind, all are acceptable to the misplaced fire and there's a big window for misplaced fire.


It had auto aim!? It did feel balanced and fun and it sealed the deal with me... just aim down the sights and you win! Big quote BTW!

It had auto aim!? It did feel balanced and fun and it sealed the deal with me

Bumping hoping for someone in Crytek to see this since I've seen their post in here lately. Yea Dan, we had aim assist in the 2nd demo and it worked perfectly. I allowed precision to play a more vital role in all shooting mechanics. Spraying bullets in the 2nd demo as players do now would only end in your wasting a magazine of bullets.

Crytek your game was almost perfectly balanced when you first shipped it except for two major details and a few minor calibrations. This current hit detection and aim assist. This game doesn't reward precision aiming Crytek. It's been 2 months since this game has shipped and it's been a bumpy road trying to play your game online. I'd have this forum saved as a favorite so I could check in daily hoping to see if a new update was being implemented. This speaks volumes to how addicting the 2nd demo was Crytek. Throughout all the frustrations, I'd remember why I bought this game. I'd remember the fun and challenge I had with the 2nd demo brought to the table.

I remembered how everyone use different modules of the suit. Saw how each designated weapon niche dominated their target area. I remembered how spraying your weapon only resulted in a death. I remembered distinctly that a player could actually walk around in the power module mode without getting dropped instantly due precision required for aiming. It allowed armor to work as it was actually designed to do. Assinations worked consistently and players aiming had to be decisive to drop a cloaked opponent. Crytek I don't want you to completely morph this game and lose that magic it had. The aim assist and hit detection is throwing everything in this game out of whack. If the core mechanics are out of whack the structure will collapse. You can't build a house on sand Crytek.

Please Crytek, just change the hit detection and aim assist back towards the 2nd demo's setting and watch your game start to flourish in all aspects again.