From my experience with Crysis 2 so far, with both demos and retail version is that a lot of questionable decisions went into the multiplayer concerning hit detection in the current retail version. Without a shadow of doubt in my mind, I believe the #1 problem with the retail game as of right now concerning multiplayer is the control input concerning aiming. This one thing has a domino effect on all the other negative areas of the retail version as of right now. It causes automatic weapons in the assault rifle and smg class to feel overpowered, makes the maximum armor practicality feel a ? as effective as it was in the demos, and makes sprayin& prayin the law of the land in the game. In the demo, if a player had Precise and Consistent aiming, he could turn the tide in a shootout consistently no matter if the other player got a drop on him. Right now, the hit detection to do that consistently and effectively has been thrown out the window for that to occur. The reason that can't occur is because 1 thing that I believe has be increased to a degree significantly that a lot of online gamers hate to say that they don't need or want is....................reticule magnetism.

Reticule magnetism isn’t evil per say because no matter how good you are it is needed in a console games. If implemented correctly with other mechanics of the game correctly, such as hitboxes, damage output and most importantly player input, it’ll turn the retail game back into a version where consistent player input is the most influential factor and not I see you first spray my gun in that general direction and keep my fingers crossed. Since more reticule magnetism is needed, damage output cannot be very high or else it’s all about I see your first die gameplay.(Which is extremely detrimental towards Crysis because a player can turn invisible with the press of a button) In my opinion, Crytek nailed it in the 2nd demo. If I died in the demo I wasn’t upset, I see that person killcam showed that player was consistent enough with their aiming to kill me, the killcams for the retail version tend to show the opposite the majority of the time. I seen on at least half my deaths the the player is swiveling a Thompson gun back and forth like he’s a Chicago gangster in 1920’s during a police raid.

It seems that changes in the aiming concerning, ADS( Aiming Down Sites) was changed from the demo. What I interpret so far from the ADS is that static as soon as you press it down without any magnetism. On paper it sound great but the aiming controls in the game need some fine tuning because you can’t have precision for accurate decisive shots. Add on top of that complex terrain, quick movement speed, superhuman jumping capabilities and the ability to cloak/armor and you have a recipe for general spraying around the area. I believe fully since they decreased the reticule magnetism, they in turn increased bullet damage which all bring this coming around to a full circle. Stronger damage dealt to deal with the inconsistent aiming issues= quicker deaths, automatic weapons feel overpowering, maximum armor effectiveness drops severely, single shot & burst weapons feel underwhelming, this is turns the game from decisive aiming into a game where the player wins who shoots the most bullets in that general direction.

This of course is what I believe to be true, I could be wrong and I am sure I could be wrong in some aspects but I’d like to hear other opinions on the matter concerning aiming and what you interpret from it. 2nd demo aiming/hit detection felt perfect because when I made a mistake during my aiming, I knew it so I could make the adjustments next time .I thoroughly enjoy the game and plan to keep playing it but this the #1 item on my list to fix because during the demo, lag rarely meant anything towards my performance. My ability to consistently aim overcame that so that’s the most important factor to me.

Bump after a very frustrating game, still love to hear what people think of the difference of the hit detections between demo and retail

This fits with my first experiance of MP. (I've only played MP for one day, I'm just relating my first impression.)

Me, a total noob gets the "Most Accurate" award in most of my games. (It's wasn't because I didn't shot a lot. I didn't even try to be accurate.) What I learned form this, which also help a lot was: Aim less spray more... Why? 1) That's what the more experinced player's did (that's why it was so easy to get that award); 2) Being a better shot than your opponent isn't a decisive advatage, I still svcked... The only thing I excelled at was consistant and accurate aiming and it didn't win me any firefights. I'm led to believe you get a higher damage per second (on target) by spraying than trading RoF for precision/accuracy in most engagement.

All I'm saying is: So far (based on a few hours) I've seen no correlation between marksamship and combat effectiveness. Quite the oppsite. Energy management and other tactics are probably more important. I suspect that a lot of players are dissapointed in Crysis 2 because it may not be as gun-centric as other shooters, like CoD or Halo.

This fits with my first experiance of MP. (I've only played MP for one day, I'm just relating my first impression.)

Me, a total noob gets the "Most Accurate" award in most of my games. (It's wasn't because I didn't shot a lot. I didn't even try to be accurate.) What I learned form this, which also help a lot was: Aim less spray more... Why? 1) That's what the more experinced player's did (that's why it was so easy to get that award); 2) Being a better shot than your opponent isn't a decisive advatage, I still svcked... The only thing I excelled at was consistant and accurate aiming and it didn't win me any firefights. I'm led to believe you get a higher damage per second (on target) by spraying than trading RoF for precision/accuracy in most engagement.

All I'm saying is: So far (based on a few hours) I've seen no correlation between marksamship and combat effectiveness. Quite the oppsite. Energy management and other tactics are probably more important. I suspect that a lot of players are dissapointed in Crysis 2 because it may not be as gun-centric as other shooters, like CoD or Halo.

I try not to jump the gun in trying to in determining decisions made by developers. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt game concerning balance, but I have no idea why Crytek changed the hit detection from the demo to retail, it makes no sense. The game is losing it's new smell and the frustrating decisions are starting become more apparent. They basically neutered so many strategic aspects from the demo it is ridiculous. Consistency and precision should always be a favored aspect in a fps no matter how many new and evolving aspects are involved in gameplay.

This current hit detection system favors too spraying way too much. Energy management is way too tedious. Simple running movement across a short distance leaves you too vulnerable to attack because of ridiculous energy drain. Just look at the first video of demo footage before the demo, giving a breakdown of all the armor abilities. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMtkWM-rBtk That kind of gameplay is what the Crysis demo excelled at and what drew me into a first day buy. I thought the big draw for this game was being able to be adaptable to the situation. Using each assest of your suit to it's full abilites. Retail version gave that the pink slip with it's current hit registration.

Armor rarely does anything but turn you into a walking lightbulb. Armor is basically gimped and of little use. Armor and cloak should have it's strengths and weaknesses. Armors weakness definitely outweigh it's strengths in the retail version. The static ADS is making aiming aspect of this game so bland. Precision and consistency should win shootouts, not I shoot more bullets your direction so I win. You can't place your bullets in a decisive position because of the registration. The Autolock static ADS is definitely not helping the cause for precise shots either but I'll try not to complete turn this page into a full on rant from a frustrated customer.

I don't like ranting on Crytek, espically after that addicting demo but this game has so much potential. It was within fingertip reach of it in the 2nd demo and I doubt it'll ever be that way again.

Ill agree with the orginal poster that there feels like there is no auto aim in mp and that has tempted me to break out the ol mouse and key setup i have just for that fact. Auto aim is a must for games played on a controller.

Though to be honest as far as spray and pray goes i cant say if it is better as opposed to good aim. I just think the matchmaking is screwy and it makes everything so inconsistant. I still enjoy brief multiplayer runs in this game but i could never play it for extended periods of time. It seems the same every time for me... 1st game is really fun and i do really well then it just starts going rapidly downhill every game after that.... im starting to think i have to find a new lobby after every game... i dunno i juat hope they can tweak it

I feel as if this game has way more auto aim than both COD and Halo. The crosshair will stick to the middle of an opponents body even if he is moving at fast speeds. The magnetism is so strong in fact that I find it hard to aim in front of players because my crosshair is constantly stuck to the middle of their body. The auto aim in the beta was different tho and seemed almost identical to COD's auto aim IMO

I do however agree that the demo played about 200x better than the final product. Whether it's because of better netcode, auto aim or dmg(dmg seems about on par with what it was in beta to me) I don't know because i can't play them both side by side to make comparisons. It definitely played better tho.

I don't believe the spray and pray has anything to do with any of that tho. It's not really praying when your gun has little to no recoil :/

I just don't see this at all. Failure to aim always results in a death. When my aim isn't quite right I die. Spray and pray never works for me in firefights. Sometimes it seems like I'm playing a different game to everyone else. I hardly ever see anyone hip firing and surviving consistently.

Hmm maybe my auto aim is turned off...

I feel as if this game has way more auto aim than both COD and Halo. The crosshair will stick to the middle of an opponents body even if he is moving at fast speeds. The magnetism is so strong in fact that I find it hard to aim in front of players because my crosshair is constantly stuck to the middle of their body. The auto aim in the beta was different tho and seemed almost identical to COD's auto aim IMO

I do however agree that the demo played about 200x better than the final product. Whether it's because of better netcode, auto aim or dmg(dmg seems about on par with what it was in beta to me) I don't know because i can't play them both side by side to make comparisons. It definitely played better tho.

I don't believe the spray and pray has anything to do with any of that tho. It's not really praying when your gun has little to no recoil :/


I don't believe this game has a lot of autoaim. This game has serious auto lock on when you ADS and I believe that's where players are getting it confused with. It's almost in a sense like of GTA3(not as bad), when you ads in proximity of the target in the retail version. However when you ads, it locks your sights in the position where you last hit LT (on the players position) without any magnetism for accurate shots. This is where random spraying is starting to come into play because decisive shots take a backseat to how many bullets I can shoot from the last known position that I ADS. The magnetism is relativity weak because if the magnetism was stronger, player could make more decisive shots. I believe they tried to put more emphasis on ADS for being the centerpiece for accurate shots but with copous amounts of static autolock and little magnetism, it turned the game into a spray my bullets into a general area outlet.

I believe the demo also had autolock ADS, but it required leading target leading and anticipating where your target was going to be positioned when the bullets were shot. In order to lead the target and/or anticipate where what position your bullets were going to register, requires reticule magnetism for that to occur. That is why the demo worked because it allowed for more player input instead of letting the game do majority of the work. Since it demanded the player to be more aware of his input, it made accurate shooting a more decisive factor. That's why Maximum armor worked in the demo because a lot of players didn't master accurate & precise shots. You had to put a steady stream of bullets in one position accurately to drop an opponent. The retail version doesn't allow that because a sidewipe from aiming down sites, send more than enough bullets to you current position and drops you too quickly. It also makes strafing far less effective because they can send a stream of bullets your direction with a simple swipe.

Perfectly said really, couldnt have said it better myself, thats why I think this game needs a bump in health or Armour or both potentially and you should also note the Damage the weapons do in relation to their rate of fires aswell as the size of the clips, 10 rounds more than your average assault rifle clip in any other game.

Yeah The 2nd Demo felt solid, It felt skill based.

I'm sure they raised the aim assist on this game, it feels alot easier to "grab" targets with the aim assist. but before It had a battlefield level of aim assist, this feels more like Halo or CoD.

Also how do you make your connections worse from a Beta? the 2nd demos connections were solid as ****, I recall 4 bars being common in the 2nd demo.

Perfectly said really, couldnt have said it better myself, thats why I think this game needs a bump in health or Armour or both potentially and you should also note the Damage the weapons do in relation to their rate of fires aswell as the size of the clips, 10 rounds more than your average assault rifle clip in any other game.

This is what I thought be would be the first solution to the problem but then I realized that it COULD be more detrimental to gameplay if more Armor was introduced. Due to the aiming system, accuracy tends be a rarity in long distance shootouts. Since the current system makes the player control their bullet spread in a small coned area, you can't make decisive shots med to long range unless the target is perfectly still. The slightest movement throws precision out the door, sacrificing accuracy for shear number of bullets fired. If the current ADS allowed us to control the reticule in a 3-dimensional plane(a cubed room) instead of a 2-dimensional plane (a vertical wall) I could see that working. My guess is that more armor would be too forgiving in this game in it's current state. I believe if the hit detection is changed back to demo where leading/anticipating the targets positions on a 3-dimensional plane, it would solve all major balancing issues.

Yeah The 2nd Demo felt solid, It felt skill based.

I'm sure they raised the aim assist on this game, it feels alot easier to "grab" targets with the aim assist. but before It had a battlefield level of aim assist, this feels more like Halo or CoD.

Also how do you make your connections worse from a Beta? the 2nd demos connections were solid as ****, I recall 4 bars being common in the 2nd demo.

I agree fully with everything you said. 2nd demos aim assist felt along the lines of battlefield level of aim assist..(which I feel is best on consoles) It relies way more on user input for accurate shots.

Not to mention it seems like people on the killcam shoot were I was and get a kill which is pretty frustrating.

And yes they have increased the aim assist, the amount of times I see somebody aiming in and spraying then as soo as im dead their aim goes everywhere because the aim assist has turned off.

Its annoying to see people still using it at rank 20+

Not to mention it seems like people on the killcam shoot were I was and get a kill which is pretty frustrating.

And yes they have increased the aim assist, the amount of times I see somebody aiming in and spraying then as soo as im dead their aim goes everywhere because the aim assist has turned off.

Its annoying to see people still using it at rank 20+

Your definitely not lying. I turned mines off around rank 15 or so. I don't care if I can go +15 with it on. It just isn't fun because I can tell the game is doing the majority of the work. I am in no way thinking that I'm uber pro or MLG LEET. I don't even play competitively but I like to adapt and play with my own abilities. I get a lot more satisfaction when I'm able to learn and approve on my mistakes.

Hit detection is a fail. whether you get a kill or not is down to pure luck, all it takes is one stray bullet to the head and you're down, even if you're armoured. 8 times out of 10 it's a stray bullet from someone aiming at me, or a complete noob just spraying left and right that kills me. Add in the bad network code and you've got a game that is all about randomness in the kill. I didn't play the demo much, but it seemed to be a lot better than the release version. (e.g Armour and Stealth seemed to do something) Seriously I don't know why I get a Tab marked "deflection" appear on my screen at all..........

I think some things that were designed for the game are the main problem, Peoples stats resetting: Nano Reboot. Peoples grenades/C4/Rockets vanishing: Detonation Delay. What I mean is the game at random kicks in the code for such things, even if they aren't equipped on any players.

But the game needs a serious overhaul, regardless of what anyone says, it been proven that the majority of players have issues, and just because you don't, doesn't mean they do not exist. Hit detection is a joke, especially when one or 2 shots to the body or groin can kill you despite your power ups.

I suggest they:

Make nano armour provide head protection.
Make armour protect from any single shot kills, especially to the groin and body.
Well actually, just make the nano armour protect you like it should, as it is it only seems to, as pointed out elsewhere, protect you from explosives, and even that is random and nothing else.
Force Aim Assist off for all players: It's a load of crap that you need such crutches on a console. All it does is make many players feel cheated when the game, not the player kills them.

But most of all the main problem is the network code. It's ridiculous the game has a tendency to pick someone with a crap connection, leaving one player with 4 green bars, and everyone else with a single red. If not, select a host and make peoples connections appear before the game in the lobby, so we can choose whether to stay or find another match.

That I think would fix much of the hit detection problems. Heck might even make it so when I shoot the crap out of someone they die, instead of appearing left or right of my shots in the kill cam and taking no damage.

But yeah, I think the demo had it right, I kind of get sick of playing demo's up until release just to find the finished product is NOTHING like I expected and saw.

something i'd like to add. i was shooting at an enemy last night while ads aiming down the sights. another enemy ran between us and my aights then stuck to him as he ran by pulling my aim off my first target.

I agree with most of the sentiments here. The terrible hit detection makes full-auto weapons, especially ones with silencers, massively overpowered, reducing aim dependent weapons like the Grendel and sniper rifle useless. I've died so many times because the Grendel's hits didn't register, the guy I was firing at sprayed me down with full auto fire, and the fact that the damn thing is a nightmare to handle in CQB. Armor mode being a joke and the terrible staying power of the cloak also make things worse, because the damn spawns are still usually right next to major groups of enemies.

There are also massive issues with the grenade launcher attachments, namely the fact that they often fail to detonate. I'm guessing this is a byproduct of whatever code is being used to ensure that L-Tag and JAW users don't kill themselves, but it's an issue that can cause many deaths.

There are also massive issues with the grenade launcher attachments, namely the fact that they often fail to detonate. I'm guessing this is a byproduct of whatever code is being used to ensure that L-Tag and JAW users don't kill themselves, but it's an issue that can cause many deaths.

That's one thing I don't understand... If they fire a rocket/grenade too close to themselves, let it kill them. It's retarded that we have a "safety" on something and should be used as a last resort OR from a tactical distance...

There are also massive issues with the grenade launcher attachments, namely the fact that they often fail to detonate. I'm guessing this is a byproduct of whatever code is being used to ensure that L-Tag and JAW users don't kill themselves, but it's an issue that can cause many deaths.

That's one thing I don't understand... If they fire a rocket/grenade too close to themselves, let it kill them. It's retarded that we have a "safety" on something and should be used as a last resort OR from a tactical distance...
What's weird is that the rifle grenades are either contact detonating or timed depending on where you hit. If you aim at a guy and he suddenly swerves, you've got a decent chance of the thing just bouncing even further away from him and exploding harmlessly. Get it right on target and it's usually a one hit kill.

Plus the rifle grenades have a horrendously poor area of effect. I've had grenades detonate right behind people without armor on and they just gun me down as I switch from the grenade launcher to the SCAR.

Lol, man o man. Another frustrating game and I'm back in the forum to relief some stress and try to constantly bring up the topic what I believe everybody should acknowledge. It feels like I'm turning myself into a glutton for punishment when I try to play this game in this current state. This snapping autolock is absurd. You put yourself at a EXTREME disadvantage when you have it aim assist disabled in this game. There is no middle ground for players who want to do the majority of their aiming input. You can either have it the undemanding way(aim assisted/Which is bland & uninspiring to me)or you have to be 100% focused just to get a kill that takes twice as long as a newcomer to the game due to the abundant aim assist and shoddy hit detection. Can't count how many times I'm shooting someone they turn around, autolock with the ADS, spray and get rewarded with a kill. I am losing patience with this game but I keep playing. I give Crytek props for an addicting demo because that's the only thing that is keeping me around, hoping they'll take a step back and look why the demo stood out like it did. The game is not going to get as much constant play from me cause if this keeps up, I'm going to end up returning it. I'm crossing my fingers hoping this issue gets resolved soon.

Bumping again to tell the reason why the hit detection is so inconsistent online. What was the 1 thing that the demo didn't have that the full game had access to? More weapons? No. Different modules? No. More weapon attachments. No. It was the campaign. The campaign is the reason for the current downfall of the multiplayer. Not in the sense that it took the forefront in Crytek's goals but it did leave something else. THE CAMPAIGN LEFT IT'S HIT REGISTRATION IN THE MULTIPLAYER. That's the problem with the multiplayer because it's the same exact registration as the campaign.

There is nothing wrong with the campaign hit registration when you playing offline against a computer because your playing to reveal the story and your against multiple AI opponents. However if your playing online in a multiplayer enviroment, it's a different story. Campaign hit registration has way too much Autoaim to the point where the player doesn't have to be aware of their input. Using the same hit registration online is a disaster waiting to happen because it takes too much player input out of the players hands.

Think about it. Were the campaign A.I's designed the run at the same speed as the other human opponents online? Nope. They basically were shooting ducks because of slow movement and stationary firing. Did they jump superhuman heights at random? Nope. They could barely clear over any cover. Did the campaign's A.I. ever try to strafe your fire? Nope. They stood still and absorbed your bullets like a sponge.

Multiplayer is not about finishing a story. Multiplayer is not about letting everybody have a kill. Multiplayer is about letting the better player win. The campaign hit registration doesn't allow that in online gameplay. The 2nd demo hit registration allowed way better player input and it balanced all the weapons in the process. Shotguns ruled close quarters. Assault rifles dominated mid-range combat and snipers conqured long range. Give players the 2nd demos hit registration and a majority of the balancing issues will be crossed of the list.

Lol, bumping again to tell how much this hit detection is a joke. Whoever decided that the current campaign auto-aim system would be best for multiplayer deserves a pink slip. I doubt this game is salvageable anymore. THE MASS MAJORITY OF THE MULTIPLAYER PROBLEMS COMES FROM THE HIT DETECTION. Yes, this game has serious lag issues people but all the problems concerning weapon balancing, quick deaths, ineffective armor, quick energy drains comes from the hit detection people. Lag doesn't play as big as a role in the shootout outcomes as you think. I really don't know why this game has a multiplayer aspect when it gives players this much autoaim. You should have taken out the multiplayer aspect and shipped some kind of horde/firefight mode instead.

THE MASS MAJORITY OF THE MULTIPLAYER PROBLEMS COMES FROM THE HIT DETECTION.

Even on the PC where we get away from the Auto aim crap. HIT DETECTION and Net Code is still a joke. I hate those random headshots from bullet sprays.

Couldn't put it better. Never played the demo but from the final version I can say the armour abilites and aiming is absolutely retarded. The whole game is a massive invisible war. I'm a run and gun type of player and I can't even go around in armour mode without getting messed up.