Cool story, I don't care. As I said, just because someone can survive on stale bread and water doesn't give them the right to force others to follow the same diet just because it works.

In any case a mod will be out in no time to amend this, so yeah I won't have to deal with anything.

You however will have to deal with not having console commands.

Great then you can be less annoying about it.

I also don't need console commands obviously. If there's an issue I reload a save. I don't have a [censored].

You're the one being annoying. You're like a 5 year old breaking another kid's toy because he's jealous of it. "If I can't have it no-one can"

We get it you don't need console commands, no one cares. Stop dictating what others should or should not have.

I wonder how many of the people voting no in here voted yes to keep sleep-to-save and then pissed on console players who didn't want to be inconvenienced by having to reload due to a bug.

I voted don't care. By the time I play FO4 on my PC so many mods will be out that I'll probably just play with a custom survival mode.

It's funny because I want PC to have console commands. I just don't see the point in acting like an entitled child about a decision beth made to remove them. You have options. They may not be the most convenient but Survival mode is obviously about the least convenient thing you can do. So use a mod or deal with it.

As someone who plays on console, I can absolutely understand the reasons for the existence of the console commands. Their there to allow modders to test mods for players to use to debug quests. It can also be used to cheat items into the game, but is that a legit reason for taking it away from PC players? I say nope, it's not.

So, let me ask this question to the people who think that PC players should lose console commands on the new Survival mode:

If I'm playing on the new survival, and a quest decides to bug out on me, or NPC walks by and bumps into me, knocking me into and through a wall, what am I supposed to do? How am I supposed to fix these problems? How are modders supposed to be able to test their mods if they don't have access to the console commands?

So survival mode is meant to inconvenience you when you get stuck because of a bug by making you reload and waste time instead of using the console to fix it. It all makes perfect sense now....

Same thing console users have done throughout history? Reload a save. Even if that is hours ago because you didn't have a nap and save your game. And I'm sure modders with figure out a way to get console back for real debugging purposes.

Not MEANT to but that's what would happen. The horror right?

horror? no

unnecessary... yes

^This.

The dev console doesn't exist for player convenience.That's an added bonus of its presence in the game. It's primary purpose it to be used during game development. Modders use it because of that. I'm in it all the time. So I'd argue that modders need it and therefore anyone who wants to use mods needs it.

and the world goes on...

Which is absolutely understandable. It's a debug console for a reason. But like I said, these little nagging issues with clipping and quests, console users have worked around by reloading saves. I don't even want the console removed at all but to freak out about it from an average player perspective is silly.

so if it doesn't touch you at all... why your agitating against it?

you wouldn't even notice if PC users got their console back.

you don't have a problem with it, it's nothing that touches your game, so why argue against people wishing it back?

simply makes no sense.

I'm not even against console use at all lol in case you haven't read that the ten times I've stated it. This isn't a thread where we're voting to make a change, the change has been made. I at first was just asking what the reason everyone was getting worked up about it and then pointed out that what everyone was talking about could just be fixed the same way that's been done by console users forever. So if Beth NEVER brings the debug console back in Survival, people would just refuse to use it because they can't be inconvenienced by reloading a save?

Sorry, not a good enough answer. Just because console users have to do it, doesn't mean PC users should be required to do it as well. The only reason any of this is happening is because whiny console players got mad because they lost their precious exploits, and decided that if they couldn't cheat items into a single player game using an exploit that was never meant to be there in the first place, then PC gamers shouldn't have access to the Console Command, a tool meant for modders to test their mods, and players who have to debug a quest or get themselves unstuck from a piece of geometry.

Also, let me ask this question again since you seemed to have ignored it:

If a modder wants to make a mod for the new survival mode, how is he/she supposed to be able to test it if they don't have access to the Console Command?

still the same: why do you even bother what PC players want? it's none of your business.

and don't come with "wasting developers time"... changing a boolean variable from 0 to 1 isn't much of an issue.

Another baseless stab trying to project more PC to console hate. Proofless and pathetic.

And I did answer you, I guess it was too inconvenient for you to scroll up and read. Modders seem to have already figured out a way to reenable the console.

Take those jolly fingers off your eyes and read that I have no problem with the console being there. Beth had it's reasons to remove it.

You ever think the Bethesda Devs are sitting in their big conference room with the projector going showing the forum pvssyr? Sitting there with their popcorn and beer and laughing at the chaos they made.



I bet they are...

http://i.imgur.com/NHtuVku.jpg

Ohhh and this was also well in development before the 1.4 patch so this argument is as empty as your tilde button will be

First-this is a beta. Nobody's "demanding" anything, they're giving feedback which was specifically requested before final release.

Second-console players have "always gotten around this by reloading saves." Fair enough, except the option to reload saves is *also* mostly gone.

Third, and still completely unaddressed-even console players get mods on this game. Modders need the console to develop their mods. You don't want survival mods?

Unquestionably this. I strongly feel the same way for all of the same reasons you had. Can't imagine playing a Bethesda game on PC without being able to use the Console Menu. I've lost count of how many times I've saved myself from a broken quest or getting stuck in terrain. A few times it's happened in Oblivion & Skyrim guilds, which would have forced me to restart had I not been able to fix it via the Console menu. It's rare but definitely happens and would ruin the experience especially when it happens on the new Survival mode. We could lose a ton of hours of progress all because of a glitch in a quest.

I'm glad you numbered your points 1) The beta feedback is requested for those playing the beta and they were given a specific forum to do so. No where was it ever mentioned that this forum would be looked at for feedback on beta releases.

2) It sure has. Do you know what console users are going to do, still, in the vanilla game and in a survival playthrough if they run into issues?... that's right, reload a save. See, it doesn't hurt that much.

3) Again, I'm all for the debug console to be there and I absolutely understand it's usefullness in debugging mods.