You want to bring child killing back? You sick [censored]. Just kidding, I think it would be cool to bring it back. I can just imagine if Fallout 4 had child killing, Fox news would be all over it like white on rice.

He means the subject matter won't be understood by everyone, not that New Vegas is scarier.

A little kid could easily play FO3 and understand Brotherhood of Steel = good and Enclave = bad, and that raiders, supermutants and talon company need to die.
New Vegas though, they wouldn't be able to grasp who is who. The factors behind your decision range from personal freedom to corruption to efficiency as a nation; a child can't reasonably understand these and make an educated decision on what nation they feel is the best for the Mojave. All of the dialog and conversation with Caesar and Mr. House would bore them and go completely over their heads.

It's very clear that somewhere in development of New Vegas, they took a team of writers (ACTUAL writers; any idiot can claim "I'm a writer" but these writers actually produce high quality material), a philosopher, a gun nut and a history major and made a collaborated effort. Remember that "making of" vid for Oblivion, anyone? Where there were all these devs that were bat-[censored] crazy about what they had to design? (the horse lady, the stoner who loved green scenery, the gothic dude who had to make the undead caverns) This is how games should be produced and this is exactly how New Vegas seems to have done it. They took what they know and built a story around it.

Cool strawman bro. I never said anything about a 'correct' age. But in the US, 18 is the hot button age for 'prepare for all the grim of the world compressed into one game'. Yes a parent can buy their kid some M rated game, but maturity levels arent consistent from 100 people.

Edit-@ Whiteguy- You're missing my point. I'm not criticising the rating, it's the players. I've seen a lot of whiners around these forums who've thrown a tantrum saying 'Dis gaem iz gay, wy dey so lidl cerseeng.' If cursing is a players definition of maturity, i cannot take that player seriously.

I think I got a better understanding of this discussion.

Ok, so yeah maybe buying a child user age 10 fallout NV isn't a good idea. Should a parent be instantly called lazy and bad? No, unless there is better reasons then just purchasing a rated m game.

I just thought about the legion (and their [censored] and crucifying ways and realized it isn't appropriate for 8 years olds.

However, a more mature child, or mature gamer who happens to be, say 13 or 14 and up, i see no problem if they play this game and understand right from wrong and won't mimic such actions and are mature about it.

One of these days, they will realize the world in fucjed up, an some do and are mature about it, so fallout shouldn't be a problem.

My fallacy brah.

I agree that it's the players. I just don't agree with a government saying how mature I am based on my age, and that's what they're doing when they say I have to be a certain age to play a game.

Even at 13 or 14, while they are CAPABLE of considering the options, that's an age where, you've STILL spent all your life listening to the advice and experience of others.
New Vegas is a game that shows you capitalism, a democracy, a dictatorship and anarchy, all their goods and bads, and then expects you to make an educated decision on which one you think is best. For a 13 or 14 year old, I can't help but think there'd be an incredible spike in the amount of NCR supporters.

I think another thing to consider is that New Vegas doesn't just need a mature enough mind, but a mature enough mind that IS willing to question their own morals and standards, and won't just blindly follow that which they already know, so it's not exclusively an age issue, though a younger audience is of course less likely to fit this category. I mean, there are plenty of let's play vids on Youtube, all of them by people that are 16+, and what always happens? NCR and Yes Man supporters. The NCR supporters run around screaming "AMERICUH!!!!" as if they never even stopped to consider the possibilities whereas the Yes Man supporters seem naively full of themselves, believing they could run a nation better and bring peace and harmony to everyone (which again, they must've missed the writing on the wall to believe that). You NEVER see a Let's play where someone justifies their support for their faction thoroughly. You NEVER see a let's play with a Legion or House supporter.

That's how I feel about it, not to sound arrogant or anything, but it takes someone intelligent and someone with emotional depth and insight to really understand the game and it's choices. I'm not talking about game mechanics or knowing what swear words mean -- I'm talking about the philosophy behind each faction/NPC and being able to decide which is best for the Mojave. If you just play the game by saying "well I killed everybody so I guess I have to do the Yes Man quests cause when I kill him he keeps reappearing and now the Legion and NCR hate me and..." then you really didn't get anything out of the game and probably never will.


I agree, age has little to do with maturity and emotional depth; there are 14 year olds who are far more mature than some 25 year olds, so I would say age is not really a factor in understanding this game. I would say that 13+ is around the cutoff though, since below that many kids are still in the "childhood innocence" phase where the world seems like, you know great, happy, shallow place.


I disagree, as it depends on the person. Some 13-14 year olds are able to make educated decisions and truly weigh the options of the different philosophical and political paths that each faction takes, and then apply that to how well it would work in the long run.

Actually I think when I was 5 I realized that world wasn't a great, happy, shallow place.

That's why I don't agree with the government and ESRB telling me what is appropriate for me to play. How do they know how mature I am? I can understand some clerk not selling a violent game to a six year old, that's not good. But if someone is 16 and they want to buy an M game, they should be able to. I think the ESRB should keep the ratings, just remove the age restrictions.

Because the ESRB is not looking out for YOU specifically, it's looking out for the general public. If your mum and dad think you deserve it and are mature enough for it, then you will get it. If not, just tough it out till you're older.

What if someone is mature enough but they have strict or crazy parents?

Yeah but we're not talking about the exception, we're talking about the general public. You don't go around saying "Fallout New Vegas is a game for young teens" just because 18% of teens are capable of wrapping their brains around it. It's a general statement made on behalf of the general public.

FFS, somewhere in the world there's a genius 8 year old who understands far more than he should, doesn't mean ALL 8 year olds are capable of comprehending the story and impact of Fallout New vegas.

Then you're SOL. But really, teenagers are probably the poorest judges of their own maturity. Every single one thinks they are more mature than they are, regardless of how mature they actually are. It's a universal law.

That said, I actually don't care for the ESRB. It's just another mechanism that enables parents to shift responsibility away from themselves, as well as being wildly inconsistent.

I guess the system we have for videogames right now isn't perfect, but it'll have to do.

Well if there's anyone here who is below 16, speak up!

Obviously if you are and are participating in this conversation intelligently, you probably know how to handle FONV.

Besides, it's a video game!!! It's ment to be enjoy, regardless of what the consumer wants to do! If he wants to run around screamin' "AMERRRIIICUH!" and "HURR DURR YANKEY DOODLE," then by golly, hand that man a beer and let him play the way he wants in this rpg!!!

Hooah!

Even then, he or she would have to be a very well-read genius 8 year old. 99.9999% of kids that age are at a stage of development where they think in absolute terms, and aren't really capable of thinking abstractly, much less comprehending complex plots with varying degrees of moral and sociological implication.

You don't know that. Hell, there may be many smart 8 year olds in the world. Hell, there are!

Yeah, I do know that. At least that's what all the research in the field of developmental psychology tells us.

And again, smart =/= mature. Children develop modes of thinking at a fairly set rate, with very, very, very rare exception. Another common trait among young people is that they tend to believe they are the exceptions to the rule, ironically.

Provide some links so I can confirm your thoughts, since your "sure."

Just out of curiosity. What makes you think he's wrong?

Um, I feel I should get this out of the way, I started to act mature at the age of 7. I started to understand the world at 5. So, at the age of 7 I was understanding complex stories and choices. So, just to get this out of the way, there is the rare and very rare kid that matures at a very young age. Also, when I say mature, I don't mean you know, the process of men of "growing up".

What's your definition of mature? Cleaning your own room?

I don't mean to be a jerk. I just don't think a 7 year old is really capable of truly being a mature enough individual to handle M rated games. At least not for the majority of children.

I think there's a clear difference between "starting to act mature" and "mature enough to handle a M rated video game." 7 year olds may be able to achieve the former, but (in my view) not the latter.

Do your own research, I'm not pulling this off the net. I'm just telling you what I've learned in my 7+ years studying psychology.

I'd start by googling Piaget, Lawrence Kohlberg, Erik Erikson and Nancy Eisenberg.

He's implying that he's a genius.

Your not being a jerk I understand. Oh yeah by the way, I was cleaning my room at 4 or 5, but anyways, the point is my mind was more developed at that age then it needed to be. At the age of 5-7, I'd suffered through a lot of stuff. Having a meth addict mother who's never there, and a dad who is a meth addict who hides it and takes chances with the police. My sister was a meth addict also, my brother was a pot-head. I went through a lot of [censored] at that age and it caused me to develop quick.

Also, Cloudstrife, I'm not, I'm implying I could understand what it meant at that age. The post above explains it.