So I found Caesar's Legion by far the most interesting of all the factions in F:NV, however there are a myriad of contradictions within the Legion. We know they are feared by almost everyone else as they are notorious slavers, and tend to butcher the men, enslave the women, and indoctrinate the children of the towns and villages they conquer. They are said to depend on slaves entirely--from a ready labor force, to a means of inflating their numbers. However some characters make remarks that are somewhat confusing, for example Raul mentions that Arizona was much calmer after the Legion came, which may be true, but how does society work there? If all are made soldiers or slaves, what the hell is Raul doing, just chilling on the side? Also the trader inside the Legion camp whose name I forget mentions that traders are often treated fairly by the Legion, as they are dependent on supplies for their massive army. So when Legion are taking a town, do they discriminate between trader and someone else to enslave or slaughter? The last one I bring up for this post is Veronica mentions that it's hinted that Legion soldiers frequently engage in homosixual relations with each other, and she calls it something the brought back from the "Empire." However, when Rome was a military superpower heterosixuality was encouraged above all else, and under Caesar Augustus was actually enforced, in order to strengthen the numbers of Roman males. Soldiers engaging in frequent homosixual relations sounds much more classical Greek, as swelling their numbers was never truly a problem they had to face. Anyone else find the lack of lore or explanation, and the apparent contradictions annoying? Discuss.

They kill those who oppose them and enslave women, they don't kill everyone, settlements can peacefully join the Legion, and they don't attack and kill strangers on sight, they only kill those who oppose or those who support opposition.

you forgot that they kill people who use drugs such as the Great Khans well after they used them. whats weird is that the Legion never attacked me even though i had a female character.

Of those settlements who join the legion I believe they kill the sick and old as well as enslaving women. So it's not that civiilized. I do agree about Raul though the Legion arn't in the habit of letting people who obviously don't belong wander around unchallenged. Also I think Caesar was only interested in the parts of the Roman Legion that he thought would benefit him rather than producing an exact copy.

I am not sure if they "kill" the old, ill and disabled; since crappy slave is better than no slave.

Caesar Legion isnt a exact copy of the Old Roman Empire

The Legion absorbs towns, it's standard practice that they kill the old and sick who are of no use to them.

Another contradiction:

Vulpes Inculta claims no one in Nipton put up a fight, even as their 'loved ones' were being carried off and murdered, yet in the campground You can find a dead Wastelander with a Laser Rifle, and an Ash Pile with Legion Recruit Armor. Also, in the Town Hall there are dead people as well, yet Vulpes claims they were 'rounded up' outside (I think anyway).

Maybe the dead Wastelander was actually from the Wasteland and in the wrong place at the wrong time, but he had lottery tickets around him, and why kill him but not you? Because they were done razing the town?

Vulpes, man! Get your act together!

Perhaps that could be classed as an npc exaggerating the facts, its more like Vulpes lied about this to impress. He would have known one of his legion were dead.

Canyon Runner talks about belonging to the Blackfoot tribe, would he have been old enough to have remembered where he was from, seeing as it was about 30 years ago. The legion go to great trouble to destroy tribal identities to create a unified legion so why would he be so proud of this fact anyway.

And then there is the Legion person at Cottonwood, him and his men don't have a clue how to arm/disarm mines but the ones further north don't have any trouble setting mines.

*sigh*
Could we wait until we get a Legion DLC before we start this again?
Every single thing has been discussed to death.
Here:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1161505-legion-or-ncr-debate-6/
5 full threads of discussion about Legion and NCR.
Knock yourselves out.

That's not exactly what this thread is about though. Contradictions in the game regarding the legion I believe is the topic.

Canyon Runner is proud being a black foot because they are the first amount 86 tribes.

My point is though is he shouldn't even know he is from that tribe. Unless he's a lot older than he looks.

This is not a legion vs NCR discussion, thank God!
______________

What I really don't understand is why have the ancient Roman Empire/Old World to begin with? That is a specific historical occurrence in OUR history, but fallout does not exactly take place in OUR world, I was always under the impression it was like a parallel world. So this all means in this parallel world, they had a Rome also? With a Roman Empire—and Europe as we know it? We know there are Canada, Mexico and China in the Fallout world and I would assume Europe. But I find a specific Roman experience to be odd. And I agree, I find the legion to be closer to Greek warriors than Roman. So is this Bethesda/Obsidian’s way of mixing up the ‘history’ so it does not directly parallel our actual history?

Also the use of actual Indian tribes, these pertain to our history not necessarily the history of the game. For example, the Blackfoot nation was predominantly in Montana and Canada. Did the Legion extend that far north? I thought they were out of Arizona. So again, is this the game's way of mixing up history on purpose?

Yeah, it is, but I'm sure that the regular [censored] is gonna come up again.


1. This is what I meant with my previous post: we don't know.
We have no idea what Arizona is like.
So like I said, until we get a Legion DLC in Arizona then it's pointless to discuss it since it will be mostly surrounded by specualtion. (And we did speak a lot about Arizona speculation in the thread I provided)
So contradictions? Might be some, but we have no clear as water facts about Legion, only word of dante.

2. And Veronica is a reliable source?
Cause of what? She a BOS? She a scribe?
I think she's talking out of her ass.

But yeah like, if you guys wanna discuss it I'm not going to say against it.
I'm not going into it but I'll provide the wikia link: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Caesar%27s_Legion

As far as i know, in the Fallout universe there's only a technological split in the 20th century, where they never invent the microprocessor. I'm pretty sure they didn't get around to rewriting ALL OF HISTORY.

Undoubtedly, so it's best not to even mention the old threads then and just stick to the topic.

The biggest contradiction for me is that it just doesn't seem plausible for the legion to be as well developed as it is in one lifetime. Caesar started his campaign as a young man, he's about 55 when the courier meets him, so he's had roughly 30 years to build up his empire. The Legion isn't the sort of organisation you volunteer for (apart from the hard core of originals), you're either threatened into it, enslaved or brainwashed from childhood. So there's maybe one generation that's grown up in the legion and knows nothing else, the rest would harbour a resentment of some kind - killed relatives and friends, loss of freedom.

A dictatorship that relies on fear to suppress its citizens is always wary of rebellion fermenting, and it only takes a spark to set it off (see Libya). Yet the PC can slaughter Caesars and everyone in his camp and the slaves take no notice. They just carry on wandering about with huge packs on their backs as if nothing's happened (and even run away from the PC). The Legion really needs a slave rebellion quest line, or at least some gratitude when the PC liberates them solo!

first of all, let's keep this civilized.

second of all, the fact that Legion soldiers frequently engage in homosixual relations with each other seems to be a well-known fact in the Wasteland. Veronica isn't the only one who mentions it. Talk with Major Knight with the Confirmed Bachelor perk, he's one of the few people outside the Legion to say something good about the Legion, and I think he's the only one of them who's in the NCR. I believe he says something like ''the Legion is more accepting when it comes to 'friendships' then the NCR''. Obviously with 'friendships' he means (male) homosixual relationships.
I don't see how the whole 'The Legion accepts homosixual relationships'-thing could be a rumor if two wastelanders who are that far apart both talk about it.

1. I wasn't civilized?

2. Coincidence?
But yeah I forgot about MJ Knights line about Legion.
Still, how much can we trust these two?
Veronica, a scribe who's spent a lot of her time underground and at trading posts.
And MJ Knight, an NCR soldier who might have misinterpreted Legion.
We don't know what sources they have, so for all we know both of them got their info from random wastelanders passing through.
So I'd say that both Veronica and MJ Knight are speculating on Legion's views on homosixuality.
Cause no matter how many people say that Legion are more open to homosixuality I still ask: are they credible sources.
A scribe who can't go 5 minutes without making a joke of some kind and an oppressed NCR officer stuck at the border is not what I consider credible sources.

I don't know why the devs would put those lines in the game then..

To give characters their own opinions about things.
Like, I could have lots of opinions, but if you were to talk to me in real life would I be credible source unless I have the facts to back it up?
So I figure it's to flesh them out.

On the Veronica comment, "talking out of his/her ass" is a figure of speech as far as I recall so I don't see how it's uncivilized really.
Might a bit more on the harsh side of calling him/her a "large mouth without any facts to back it up".

This is exactly my thoughts on the Legion as well, 30 years to get all those rituals established and ingrained. no way. I agree too about the slaves in the fort, it's the single biggest thing that annoys me about the game, and being able to get some victims down off the crucifixes and not others. They must have realized players would want to do this sort of thing.

Oh bytheway, I found another hint that the Legion soldiers frequently engage in homosixual relations with each other. Caesar says he wants to create a 'toletarian empire'. It simply makes sense, those guys spend years without women in their lives (unless another comment from Veronica; ''they're a bunch of rap ing jerkwads'' is true).
And I didn't want to play this card, but I'm going to do it anyway: the Legionnaires wear skirts.

I don't really see how it makes sense, dunno what a toletarian empire is though.
But so they spend most of their life around other men, so what?
Does not mean that they have to turn gay or anything, maybe their trainers/commanders whipped the "lust" out of their system?

Anyway, so they wear skirts? Erm.. So what?
Pants and shirts became the popular trend to iconize men, what if toga's would have been?
Just cause they wear skirts does not mean they're gay.

Different societies have different principles that they live by, maybe "lust" is a no-no for legionnaires and are taught that their genitals are meant for procreational use only.
With only high ranking officers having the option of getting a slave as a mate.

And skirts is a really bad argument dude, they could wear high heels and make-up and it would still not make them gay, it's their cultures way of clothing/armoring themselves.