Conversation Wheel : V - Skyrim

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:42 pm

I'm sitting here playing Oblivion chatting up with the NPC's and I'm realizing how much I miss Mass Effects conversation system. I mean in oblivion every one pretty much doesn't trust or like you from the start and you either have to waste money bribing them or chat them up using the ...umm...I forgot what it's called so I'll call it the conversation wheel. Now if you get the NPC to like you, you can get things out of it but if they don't like you nothing... I loved how in ME that if you used your renegade answers and were pretty much an A-hole you still got some thing out of it... I love playing the bad guy and in Oblivion the only way you can really do that with anything happening is if you just go around killing people...not that I don't like doing that :evil:

... but I want to be able to get the same info, item etc out of a NPC, quest giver or what ever by being an A-hole and not just being a good guy :angel: or having to bribe the NPC to get what I need or want.

So if there is any MAJOR change to the conversation wheel I pray to the nine that Bethesda takes note of ME's conversation wheel...

Now I know there are going to be a lot of people who are going to want to say that TES needs to stick with tradition or what ever and I can understand that...to a point but sometimes change is for the better especially if that change makes the game better and brings in a whole new dynamic to the game. Obviously Bethesda thinks so as well since they took Idea's from Bioshock and Fallout 3...

And yes I do understand that by using the oblivion's conversation wheel you can level up you speech craft skill...but honestly I think the Speech craft skill is the most useless skill you can since all you have to do in from what I remember is just bribe the NPC' s to the max and they'll still give you what you need or want, so why bother even having it?

Morrowind had three options: "Admire", "Taunt" and "Intimidate". Why they removed the other two options out of the system in Oblivion is beyond me :shrug: .

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:37 am

Sure. However, part of the fun in clicking on that option was a player didn't really know exactly what to expect from Sheperd.

Definitely, I think New Vegas did a great job with speech craft and using it to influence outcomes. I know I used it a lot to get around tricky situations.

I thought FONV took it a little too far though. You almost HAD to level speechcraft to finish many of the quests...

Half way into my first playthrough I had to refocus my efforts on Speech skills rather than guns, just so I could move forward in some quests.

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:52 pm

The first mod I added to Oblivion was Speechcraft Overhaul to get rid of the stupid wheel.

Morrowind had a lot more "options", but was only a half-way solution to the problem. You could Bribe, Admire, Taunt, or Intimidate, but all but Taunt just raised Disposition.

Ideally, having NPCs with a long-term Disposition and a short-term Cooperation factor would have been far better, where you could gradually raise long-term disposition by daily conversation and an occasional Admire (perhaps limited to 1 time per day), or use Bribery, Intimidation, or Manipulation to secure information by increasing short-term Cooperation. Some of those might have long-term consequences to Disposition, so if you Intimidate somebody one day, they're probably going to like you less in the long run, although you just might get the information or item you wanted. If you Manipulate them, there would be a chance for them to realize it or not, and either like you more or less, and if you bribe them, their overall opinion of you might be lessened slightly, but their willingness to be bribed again might increase.

The silly idea of alternately using ALL of the forms of manipulation in the same conversation every time was blatantly unrealistic.

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:35 pm

The silly idea of alternately using ALL of the forms of manipulation in the same conversation every time was blatantly unrealistic.

But... it became reality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAHBMj2N5Qs

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:34 am

Morrowind had three options: "Admire", "Taunt" and "Intimidate". Why they removed the other two options out of the system in Oblivion is beyond me :shrug: .

My guess is because Intimidate was too similar to Admire (the only difference was a slightly higher success rate and the fact that it was only temporary) and Taunt was too easy to exploit to be able to kill whoever you want with no penalty, even guards.

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:59 pm

Hey, would a couple of you please lay off Mass Effect and Bioware? :cryvaultboy: This is not about whether ME is better than the TES games. (I LOVE those games so much! :blush: ) The OP is just talking about more moral and/or dialogue choices. Basically, how we approach NPC's in dialogue and quests.

I liked the way Morrowind did it with the Taunt, Intimidate, Bribe, etc. I would LOVE to have a variety in dialogue like in Baldur's Gate II, Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect (minus voice acting), etc. I would also like a variety of ways to finish quests as well. (I can't remember right now, but there were some games you could do that. Even Oblivion had some quests that allow a few different ways to finish the quests).

The more choices, the better! :smile:

Oh, as much as I loved Mass Effect games, I HATED the paraphrasing and voice acting! For example, I would like to say "Goodbye"/"Nice talking to you" or something and my Shepard would rudely say, "I should go". Or, if I wanted to say, "Hi, who are you?", my Shepard would say, "Who/What are you?" in SUCH a rude and brisk way, lol!
I hated being a stiff, rude soldier in ME games, even when I'm trying to choose nice choices, lol!

» Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:19 am

Oh, and BioWare and Bethesda need to make a giant project together in the future. BioWare can make the characters, conversation system, both can create the story and lore, and Bethesda can make the world and combat system.
It's not gonna happen, but it would be effing awesome. Like a sandbox Mass Effect or a The Elder Scrolls with cinematic conversations and more choices. :drool:

Good god no. Keep those linear games/company away from my Beth. Beth would be beating EA off with a stick, trying to keep them from ruining the game like they did to Biowares. I would like to see a R* and Beth collaboration. They would make the most epic 3rd person RPG ever. http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb319/joniscrazy/RoadWarrior-1.jpg

On topic though, I think that the Fallout system would work fine.