I'm sitting here playing Oblivion chatting up with the NPC's and I'm realizing how much I miss Mass Effects conversation system. I mean in oblivion every one pretty much doesn't trust or like you from the start and you either have to waste money bribing them or chat them up using the ...umm...I forgot what it's called so I'll call it the conversation wheel. Now if you get the NPC to like you, you can get things out of it but if they don't like you nothing... I loved how in ME that if you used your renegade answers and were pretty much an A-hole you still got some thing out of it... I love playing the bad guy and in Oblivion the only way you can really do that with anything happening is if you just go around killing people...not that I don't like doing that ... but I want to be able to get the same info, item etc out of a NPC, quest giver or what ever by being an A-hole and not just being a good guy :angel: or having to bribe the NPC to get what I need or want.

So if there is any MAJOR change to the conversation wheel I pray to the nine that Bethesda takes note of ME's conversation wheel...

Now I know there are going to be a lot of people who are going to want to say that TES needs to stick with tradition or what ever and I can understand that...to a point but sometimes change is for the better especially if that change makes the game better and brings in a whole new dynamic to the game. Obviously Bethesda thinks so as well since they took Idea's from Bioshock and Fallout 3...

And yes I do understand that by using the oblivion's conversation wheel you can level up you speech craft skill...but honestly I think the Speech craft skill is the most useless skill you can since all you have to do in from what I remember is just bribe the NPC' s to the max and they'll still give you what you need or want, so why bother even having it?

The "Conversation Wheel" is known as the persuasion mini game and I felt that why bother with it when you can just bribe them? Bethesda knows this and I believe they are making a major change to it (I think taking out the mini game altogether) And you do know that Bethesda made Fallout 3 right?

Yes I do know that, infact I was going to state that in my post but I assumed stating the obvious would be well a DUH moment...but they did not make Bioshock.

If anything, there should be a persuasion/intimidation mechanic. It doesn't have to be polarized as this is BGS and not BioWare. However, I do agree that taking a more aggressive approach shouldn't exactly punish the player either, and just give an alternative to obtaining information. If that means getting a little "physical" to get the information out, why not? This is Skyrim after all.

I didn't like that wheel game at all. I much more prefer the Fallout style where the speechcraft options are in the dialogue lines. Bioware's dialogue is just awesome, and New Vegas had much richer dialogue than Fo3 too, so I think Bethesda should upgrade their dialogue system too, to make it deeper.

With the way you wrote it, I assumed you didn't know. DUH.

This! The one thing Bioware does better than Bethesda is interaction with NPCs. And creating said NPCs.

That being said, I wasn't a fan of the wheel in ME/ME2. Far to often the paraphrasing was off target, and what Shepard would say had nothing to do with what I intended to convey.

Sure. However, part of the fun in clicking on that option was a player didn't really know exactly what to expect from Sheperd.

Definitely, I think New Vegas did a great job with speech craft and using it to influence outcomes. I know I used it a lot to get around tricky situations.

Okay I hope you didn't take ofence to the DUH statement....but all I said was, was that they took ideas from (from what Ive learned so far) 2 other games who developed those games really means nothing to me. I mean they can take what ever ideas from what ever games they want I really wouldn't care....As long as they make the game more enjoyable and especially more realistic.... I mean hell I'd like to see the climbing dynamic from Assassin's Creed in there as well while we're at it...

The problem with Speech is the quests are so linear. Take something like VTMB where you get a mission to get something in a building and you can either try to fight your way in, talk them into giving it to you, or sneak in and get it. In Oblivion the same quest would require EVERY type of character to do the exact same thing, the only variation being how they kill things.

I dont REALLY want to get into my opinion on how lacking TES games are on actual RPG though

I wouldnt mind an ME type system but also having NPCs react a little more realistically. Like a Nord responding better to boasting. But a wheel and maybe having some varied jokes/boasts/threats, just not a text tree like Morrowinds.

True ... at least when it came to the paraphrasing's that weren't RED or BLUE...but those are the one's I'm talking about you know...give me some RED dialogs so I can smack some homeless people around to get the info I need...LOL...Let me talk some smack :swear: to a Gray Beard for not teaching me all the Dragon Shouts at once...Let me decide to be a nice guy or a [censored]!

I want there to be a variety of dialogue and physical interactions to choose from with different responses and outcomes depending on your speech-craft. I don't want a mini-game wheel, where the only thing I know is that I made some mean remake, joke, or compliment, and if my Character say's all of these things in the right order an NPC's number will go up. It made no sense, ruined my desire to role-play and interact with Characters the way I wanted.

Nah, you gotta point. To be honest, I think the speech thing was best in Fallout 3 because sometimes there'd be dialogue options with speechcraft next to them, meaning that if you have a good speechcraft, then you'll probably suceed in persuading him. There was no bribe option or pointless mini game, so speechcraft actually felt useful and I would put a couple points in it where as in Oblivion, I never even bothered putting any points into persuasion until all my other stats were Maxed. So if they went with the fallout system, I'd be cool with that.

When I saw conversation wheel, I immediately thought of the Nw Vegas companion wheel. If they used something similar with hirelings/quest specific companions, and a stripped down version for the tone you used with other npcs, I would be happy, if it was the same size as the persuasion minigame. NVs took you out of the action, and those expression icons in Fable 2 were too small, so it ended up being guesswork unless you opened up the full menu.

Yea...Fallout 3, New Vegas and ME's conversation wheels or what ever you wanna call thm were do much better, they actually made me WANT to go up and talk to random people just to see if I could get somthing out of the exchange but in oblivion....LOL....I didn't even bother 9 times out of 10 the rumors were almost always the same and when you asked about what ever city you were in you always got the same answer....F-ing useless

I just want to point out some irony. The thing you want from Mass Effect is called "The conversation wheel." The thing in Oblivion was the speechcraft mini-game.

Now that I've got that out of the way... I completely agree with you. It adds a lot more to the game if I can choose how to speak. They did this in some points with Fallout 3 by having some conversation options that used various attributes. Assuming attributes are back I could see the more "intimidation" style options being affected by that. And in turn I would like to be able to outsmart people by using my intelligence.

I wish for Fallout style dialogues yes.
Or maybe let the persuasion wheel unlock new dialogue lines?

I'm not a big fan of the conversation wheel in Mass Effect. I felt it was too inaccurate. I chose an option, and Shepard said something completely different than what I expected.

I hope they get rid of the horrible persuasion mini game they had in Oblivion, and exchange it for something else, and I hope they add new dialogue options depending on your character's skills, ranks, actions and reputation.

But would a ME-style conversation wheel really fell that awesome without a voiced PC?

Since there's 20 race/gender combinations, that's never gonna happen.

...Though when I think about it, I loved every little chance at choosing my tone of speech in Oblivion (particulary in the Dark Brotherhood quests, where you could choose to be polite, crazy, or silent) as at least the people I talked to reacted a bit differently. (Lucien Lahance: "Ah. I find your ettiquette... refreshing.")
We know that there will be a new conversation system, and I hope that they add more choices this time around. I don't think we'll see Renegade-options anytime soon, but some more choices would be more than enough.


Oh, and BioWare and Bethesda need to make a giant project together in the future. BioWare can make the characters, conversation system, both can create the story and lore, and Bethesda can make the world and combat system.
It's not gonna happen, but it would be effing awesome. Like a sandbox Mass Effect or a The Elder Scrolls with cinematic conversations and more choices. :drool:

It worked perfectly fine in Dragon Age :shrug: I don't see why it wouldn't in TES.

Granted it wasn't a "wheel" visually, but it was the same function.

You're right, whether it's a wheel or an oldschool list, it's still mostly the same thing. I don't know where I got the thought that they were completely different from.

In Dragon Age you could use the number keys on the keyboard to choose a dialogue option. I don't think you could in Mass Effect.
...but you are right, they are basically the same. I do prefer Dragon Age's version though,

TBH... i really hated the way Fallout 3 did speech options or just using your attributes/skills in conversations in general. With that said fallout new vegas did that much better and i enjoyed that much much more than either oblivion or fallout 3's system. i'll show you the difference. My character with 9 speech and 50 science walks into a bar and a robot bouncer stops him, in fallout 3 the speech option would be 1. Let me through or i'll tear you apart [4%] in fallout new vegas it would be, let me through or ill tear you apart [9/25 SPEECH] meaning in fallout 3 i could save load till it worked, in new vegas i either had enough or didn't, and if a i got a few level ups i could go back and try again with a higher speech skill. in fallout 3 it would just say (hack the robot)[SCIENCE], in new vegas it would say (Hack the robot)[50/25 SCIENCE].

Exactly it wasn't a "wheel" in terms of visuals. But it functioned like the "wheel" in Mass Effect. As in, you could be nice, neutral, sarcastic, a jerk, violent, etc.

A good example of this is in Ostagaar(sp?) you have the option while in conversation to help a prisoner out by bringing him some food, in turn he will give you a key to a chest that "came back" to him, :sick: you can just leave, or you can choose to just stab him and take it.

The more options the better as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, Mass Effect has to have one of the best dialogue systems in a game ever. But I'm not sure how well it would work in Skyrim. It just wouldn't feel right.