Lets be honest, this is a BIG change to the game, however with it comes a lot more realism and immersion available to the game.

How you ask?

Well, instead of building up your quads to pure powermeat, gaining increased movement speed and jump height should be in direct proportion to several influences.

1. Perks
- This one is a sort of no-brainer, as I am fairly certain that there will be perks that increase your movement capabilities and it is a perk set that I will surely not be passing up.

2. Carry Weight and Clothes Weight
- Realistically, a character wearing light leather armour is going to be able to jump and run far higher and faster then one surrounded by a tonne of metal.

3. Race
- IMO, I feel that Khajit, perhaps Argonians, Wood Elves maybe Dark Elves and of course Red Guard should all have very good leaping abilities.

4. Stamina
- As it is one of 3 things that you CAN actually level up, realistically a Character with good Stamina; and therefore Cardio, is much more likely to be able to jump and run greater then that of say a caster or a character built purely for being a beefcake.

thoughts/input please

Leapin' lizards! And I agree with most things here, and I think all races should have their ups and downs, as always. I also agree with the armor and such... actually, I like this. It works very well in my eyes! The difficulty is putting it IN the game

Hit the nail on the head with this one. I totally agree. While I am disappointed that acro and athletics have been removed, I am not all out sad about it. As you said, there could be potentially perks that fill in those shoes instead. Perks for greater jumping distance based on armor preference would be cool. As well as running speed and sprint distance based on stamina skill.

I think all of these are considered, except the perks. Why? Well the perks are attached to Skills, and since there are no acrobatics or athletics, there are no perks attached to them. The Clothes Weight already existed in Oblivion, and some races had higher athletics and/ord acrobatics both in morrowind and oblivion soo the only thing that can be added are the random perks and stamina leveling (Aww man! They renamed Fatigue into Stamina!?!? Makes sense...). The attributes are now took into the three.... bars.. Something like skills, each for specialization. I think they will be put:
Health: Endurance, Strength
Magicka: Intelligence, Willpower
Stamina: Agility, Speed
I dunno whar to put Luck And Personality... They're probably gone... FOREVER.

I know this is just personal opinion (and personal opinion formed mostly by Oblivion, at that), but Athletics & Acrobatics never struck me as all that important before. A little difference in run speed and jump height doesn't really stick in the mind.

(now, Morrowind's magic-enhanced super-jumping is another issue.... but that wasn't in Oblivion and wouldn't have been in Skyrim anyway.)


All Acrobatics was, to me, is..... that easy skill I could build up my Agility stat bonus by jumping up and down stairs with. :shrug:


(Disclaimer - I played Oblivion with a scaling mod that slowed down most skill gains, and never played multi-hundred-hour characters. I've never had either of those skills above 50, far as I can remember. And probably not even that high. I did manage 80-100 Speed attribute though... and running got pretty fast from that. Annoyingly fast, when you had to escort an NPC cross-country.)

How can there be Perks for skills that don't exist? and you don't see anything wrong with needing a perk to tell your orc he can finally jump over that gate? I -hated- Fo3/NV's jumping there was literally no point beyond climbing stairs really quick, couldnt even jump over a damn gate and the jump heigt was fixed unless you were fortuante to have a PC and use the console for jump height, same goes for running speed......


you don't see a problem here?

Not disappointed at all that Athletics and Acrobatics are gone. I think Perks will take up the slack but I see no reason for being able to jump 10+ feet into the air or run 60 mph.

Hopefully not all perks will be attached to abilities, some are hopefully earned by completing certain tasks i.e. Sprint 10km, Jump 1km vertically etc...

Yeah, what MK- said. Under what skill would they place Acrobatic and Athletic perks?

armor, sneak...

I agree that is the most likely place, definitely Sneak with some Acrobatic skills although I'm not too sure on where Roll's going to end up.

Don't ellipsis me. And yes, I suppose that makes sense.

Don't forget about Block. Dodge perks could end up there.

Run perks make sense as armor skills. Acrobatic perks make sense with sneak and even in places like blade or block.

Also, we have no reason, as yet, to rule out the possibility of generic perks that aren't assigned to any particular skill. Has anyone seen confirmation that all perks are skill perks?

why Redguard? Surely they are no different to a Nord or an Imperial? Khajiits & Argonians definitely. Wood elves and Dark elves also. But not Redguard.

African descending people (which I'm suer Redguards are based on) show a good tendency to come amongst the finalists for running but then they never come amongst the finalists when it comes to lifting weights. This does not mean they haven't the ability to lift, the same way they don't always win at running.
Not sure where you get leaping ability from. They are no different to any other trained athlete or soldier within the human race.

personality can just go under the speechcraft skill. luck i sure is gone for good. but everything else here sounds like it would be about right.

Black men can jump. And run.

this is not racist at all.

if that is true then they cannot swim well :whistling:

black people are more athletic when it comes to running (as seen in Olympics). That and maybe boxing (though the Russian speaking countries have taken many of the titles now). But they lack the body strength when it come to lifting and they don't do so good at wrestling which requires a different stance. People of Scandinavian or Russian appearance tend to do well in these sports.

You rarely see a black man in the strongest man competition and when you do they usually come last. It isn't even as though there is a lack of black weightlifters as the gyms are full of them.

As for jumping then only through a good run up.

People talk about coping with terminal illnesses, or horrific poverty.. lol so I'm pretty sure we can 'cope' without acrobatics + athletics in Skyrim!

I agree with what Lord Vannt said in his actual OP tho.

You missed out on the dodge and rolling "perk" that you get when Acrobatics reaches 75. Though, admittedly it never was all that helpful, and the animations were kind of odd looking. (I'm now biting my tongue for criticizing Oblivion.)

In regards to the topic, it should be fine as long as speed and jumping get at least a bit better as you level up, which I'm sure they will. Only problem with perks that increase running and jumping is they will get used the most, making others just filler, unless all perks are great making the choice harder.

Any statement like this that tries to put the aire of fact behind the claims is highly suspect. Many africans are highly athletic. Some genetic factors do contribute to that, yes. But almost every race of man has highly athletic individuals, many of them with similar genetic benefits. Trying to actually explain why one race might be more or less athletic than another is probably just puffery.

It's mostly cultural. Cultures that value athleticism tend to create athleticism.

My little quip about "black men" that can jump or run was really just a joke.

For those of you saying that perks will take care of what acrobatics and athletics used to: Seriously? So rather than a gradual progression from 1 to 100 you want monumental improvements over the course of five or six perks? That's the worst way to improve your character, especially in something like jump height or run speed. I've said this before: it would be like going to the store, buying some super-duper-magical-steroids, and injecting yourself with them. "Wow," said the barbarian "Suddenly I can jump two feet higher. I've never noticed this before." The thing about improving your skills in real life is that the progression is often too slow to notice if you observe yourself the whole time. Why turn slow progression into ridiculous progression in a series like TES?

Forget about human cultures and races. Redguards have a natural affinity for combat and speed.

I still hold that it's not good to assume that speed and athletic progression has been removed. Just because it isn't a skill doesn't mean the mechanic is entirely gone. I have a hard time believing that any series like TES would have static run speeds for any race or character.

Stop laboring under the assumption that because something has changed, it must be gone.

This.