I'm not really happy with what i will say, and even if use twitch as a compare tool is really non-sense. He is right about the actual way the game take and what the younger generation want. Sadly you can see that everywhere around you, in tv series, cinema and video game. The time of deep story who make you think and use your brain is dead. I see that every day around me, people want fast, easy game, with a lot of action and not so hard. More you need to use your brain less it will please the people. As i said you can apply that for almost everything around you now.

Look the last start wars take the old story, take out all the non-action part, put a lot of fight and explosions and sell it. At the end most of people say is one of the best star wars.

I wished more than everything Fallout series avoid this kind of "evolution" but be realistic is made by a company who only do that for money. So make easy action game sell more that what they will do.

Indeed, important stuff does not require any skill/perk. The remaining safes/doors/whatever that require these skills normaly don′t contain anything special that would justify to waste skillpoints on them.

In FONV I used to be really unhappy when I discovered I couldn't open the safes in places like the Bison Steve. Why so unhappy, you say? Well, because I had a mod that turned the Bison Steve into a really nice restaurant/casino after you cleared the place. So, if you can't open the safe it's gone forever shortly afterward...

Fallout4 Skill system is different than F3.?Not assigning skill points? and also perks?

I think that was Bethesda's choice of gameplay about levelling our character.

They chose between:

1-Choosing the right perks

2-Choosing the perks

Do you thing it is a creation problem or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLptDJdI0L8

I executed a certain companion removing him from the game.

I contracted a disease and gave the cute to a small child, now I have that disease.

I shot up an entire group of people and removed their faction from the game (and I wasn't given a warning before I was asked to do that like everyone claimed).

In my opinion they got it more or less right in FO4. I'm especially thankful that they don't use the TES do-it-to-level system that I really reject.

I play Skyrim in the form of the Requiem mod which has a deleveled world. It's ok but not better than a mostly leveled world if the leveled enemies are made skilfully. What they are in Fallout 4, from time to time you face new enemies and it keeps the challenge.

Maybe stories are shallower now than they were in the so called good old times of RPGs. But honestly even the most intense game stories were rather primitive compared to what you get from good books for example. So all is relative. I don't think that games are the best medium for complicated stories and deep characters. What is considered deep frequently is more or less awkward compared to other forms of story telling. I prefer a game to have a good story but also nice action elements. I'm willing to lower my sight a bit on the story part if the game is entertaining in other elements.

Lastly, I don't think that enterprises in earlier times made games because they loved us and wanted to gift us. At least not for long. I'm sure all devs like gaming and their ideas and good games and want to please the customers but the main goal of running an enterprise is to make money. Only with lots of money nice big games can be made which hopefully earn lots of money to make games.

I just checked but i did not find anything anywhere about executable companions. A mod?

The cure you used on the child and your disease is your personal character problem and does not affect the game world in any manner. Ppl in the vault are gentle to you, but that does not change anything at all.

Shooting up / removing a faction is equal to the "break up with" questlines. You just did it earlier but at last does not change anything on the final result.

each faction have one companions so if you remove one faction you remove this companion too except for the minutemen who are all unkillable.

And you are right nothing you do really influence the world. just some visual effect and the patrol point and that it. my best example is go in diamond city kill some guard and comeback some hours after : nothing change everyone act like you did nothing.

Ah that explains it. I just got confused cause he said it in his first sentence on it′s own without faction deleting relation.

Except that these games are rated M for mature, and the fact is you can have deep story and action at the same time. Story doesn't even have to be that deep, just actual rpg options and quests, and both sides would be happy. Most of the people who don't complain about quests, don't care one way or the other, hell, they just go around shooting stuff and exploring. Well, this the games already has in spades, and so if we throw good quests and rpg options into the mix, those people won't care because they just want to kill stuff, and the rpg crowd would be happy. The games do not have to be one or the other. I have NEVER seen a game get criticized for having "good quests" or "decent amount of quests".

We just create our own stories.

I just don't see why I should be swarmed by quests in a postapocalyptic world, where everyone is kind of on his own.

Going into a room, looking at the skeletons and the interior and figuring out, what happenend to them... what they were doing, when the explosions happened... are already a part of the whole story for me.

You try to call it immature by telling us, that we just want to "kill stuff", but I think that's actually a pretty grown up way of telling stories about the world and the lore.

There are enough good 'RPG-type' quests to mix it up, in my opinion.

Being 170 hours into the game, I never felt like I was exploring too much... there were always enough interesting quests to mix it up.

And so far, I didn't do a single radiant quest more than a single time and don't plan to. I think the radiant quests are the real 'RPG-acid' that made it into Fallout and I'd wish they weren't there.

Im fully agree with what you and by the way you just descive fallout 1 and 2 but absolutely not this fallout 4 with the quest where you have 3 way to say yes and that the only solution for progress where you actions have no impact on the world ...


You at the end the quest are not the problem, the problem is all the rpg element missing

You simply did not really react to his point stated. Yes, enviroment can tell stories, but it′s a world with enough humans left that can tell tons of stories and they have enough of problems to be happy about the players help.

This environmental story thing can always been seen from 2 points of view, the first one is the one you describe and the second one is pure lazyness of the developers to sink time into more quests and more internal quest connections. Basing a game too much on pure environmental is something for a game basing on a completly "dead planet" where nobody is left to tell you things, but in fallout there simply is enough life left at all playes to give you a lot of more multilinked stuff to do.

And my inquiring minds really got reduced too an unexpected low level when i realized that the best stuff is only hidden on the mainquest- route and not been obtained by exploring an old cellar. And sorry, but only textbooks/computerlogs is a really lazy way do deal with that.

And at last you won′t be hurt if Bethesda would have addet a lot more quests.

And for fun fact even that AGAIN reminds me of the Diablo 3 desaster where everybody was laughing about Deckard Cain telling the games story with scattered bags-o-memories.

https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/1/1/www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/toiletbear_feat2-590x330.jpg was the first thing that came into my mind. Probably not the best example.

Just like in real life, you have to plan for things. You cant YOLO in real life and get anywhere.

People have been saying that everything is dumbing down and that the older generation is so much smarter for literally as long as humans have been around.

I don't see much of a difference between the younger generation ruining games nowadays compared to them ruining games in the 1980s or the complete collapse of human society prophesied around the time a writing system started to catch on.

Exactly. Bethesda can't win. Even if they brought back Daggerfall with shinier graphics people would complain.

Actually, Skyrim was a blessing to me. I never had to worry about planning my level-ups in that game, unlike Oblivion. I really disliked the way Oblivion leveled upwards into the teens.

Well, there's a lot of opinions in how it ties into the rest of the games' systems. Here's a nice little rundown of why I think they should change at least just the creature leveling system, explained by what the players think when they gain a level.


In the old-school gaining a level, but monsters never do: Sweet, I just got a bit more powerful.

In a system where monsters gain levels over time: Hurry and level up/power up as fast as I can!

In a Gauntlet-like system (Creature nests grow in power over time): I can strategically take out nodes to control areas while powering up for the tougher stuff.

In the player level scaled system: Did I power up enough to actually make gaining a level worth it?


While most Bethesda games have the difficulty scaled easy enough that it is worth it to gain a level, I think this explains why it's probably the worst choice for leveling creatures. Personally, I like the Gauntlet style the best, and it would fit in pretty well with Fallout 4. For example, you start with a couple high level deathclaws, and a fairly large nest of the different types, all with set levels. As time goes by, it spawns young deathclaws, and if it's ignored completely you'll end up with more advlt deathclaw versions around that area. You could pick off a few younger deathclaws to slow it down while you're low level, or at any point you could go in and attempt to cut off the whole nest. It would also tie in with settlements pretty well, as they could automatically cull some numbers if they were close enough and powerful enough. And it would create good settlement attacks, even with the possibility of a well-defended settlement fighting off a large invasion if it wasn't kept in check. All the while, leveling only has the added stats and perks, and doesn't suddenly make all those deathclaws stronger just because I leveled up.

The new system isnt bad, i just wished there was a bit more quirkiness....it is so streamlined for efficiency that a lot of what made fallout fallout got forgotten on the weay there...

FO4 as a game is WAY more complex than NV by 1000 times, there's all sort of details in the FO4 world from quests to locations, lots of details actually i think get overlooked, actually a lot of the fallout 4 critics haven't played the game or very very little of it, and there's quests with just as much complexity as anything in NV, all that happens with the rocket quest is they either crash back to earth or make it to outer space, yes the quest structuring by obsdian is very good, its a strength of their's, but they are not strong when it comes to the physical world building, the locations are far from complex and super simplisitic, a few tents as a location with 2 or 3 CL standing around?, a couple powder gangers standing next to a shed? a few raiders next to some little bit of a shack or just standing in the middle of nowhere basically? the locations in NV other than the main buildings in the strip and the vaults were lousy and poorly thought out, just kinda thrown together, so the story doesn't make up for the lack of interesting locations and its a weakness of the game

fallout is gonna be popular for a good long while, the dlc hasn't even started yet, even fallout 3 has more people playing it on twitch then NV and its an older game, the fact is far more people are interested in bethesda's take on fallout, they just put out a better product overall which a much more longlasting appeal.

i would say twitch, youtube and steam are very good indicators of what people are playing, a forum with the same 10 guys slamming fallout 4 or metacritic with the same 10 guys spamming scores of 0 or 1 aren't representative of the gaming community, they're just a few bent of shape and angry people who hate that bethesda owns and develops the fallout franchise.

First off I didn't say it was immature to kill stuff. I said the games are rated M for mature.

Secondly, I'm not looking to make up my own story. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't need Fallout.

Thirdly, there is a huge difference between being swarmed by quests(which we actually are because of radiant stuff) and having GOOD quests and good RPG elements.

Finally we to the Fallout NV vs Fallout 3/4 part of this discussion. I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.

Not when you are comparing it to 20 year old games, and games that are on GoG(drm free like Witcher). Not to mention if there is this huge conspiracy you speak of, why isn't Fallout 3 user metacritic score also a piece of crap? Also, I don't read metacritic, but I do read Steam user reviews, and there are plenty of negative reviews on there that all say similar things. Those YouTubers you mention even say similar things(good action game, not so much good RPG).