Could be from that one book, where the dremora refers to the daedra as "are"

I really hope someone comes along and shed's a bit of light on this subject... C'mon who's gonna call him out?

If all religions are different variations on the same story then perhaps we're laying witness to the Dov's variant on the monomyth. Think of it this way, the Khajiiti pantheon likens the gods to kittens and littermates and whatnot. The Dov's perspective on this event could be even more abstract when translated into the common tongues of man, a bit like say, the Tsaesci perspective. Alduin is the son of Akatosh because he is the inheritor of an aspect of him perhaps. Paternal relationships could be to the Dov as say "eating" is to our Tsaesci friends; perhaps even the opposite. :wink_smile:

Also we haven't quite accurately questioned the fact of what precisely it's like to be Alduin laying witness to his species's variation on said monomyth.

If he is "Aka son of Aka" then have we met a mythical storyline equivalent in Tsun? (That is to say purely from the writers perspective, is Tsun the shield-thane of Shor implemented as a gigantic foil to Alduin?) Something that also made me think is why he didn't participate in the fight with Alduin...

Also if Aka and Shor are the Rebel-King pair of self-same twins on each end of the umbilical cord then is it relevant which one our Dragonborn is more representative of?

I think other games had these relationships implemented in a fashion less central to the plot, and over time we've all drawn up our ideas on how these things fit together, and perhaps my long awaited chat with Alduin has come out just a bit different than perhaps we all expected.

Indeed:

"There is no credible story of how dragons came to be. According to dremora that the College of Whispers have "questioned," they just were, and are. Eternal, immortal, unchanging, and unyielding. They are not born or hatched. They do not mate or breed."--There be Dragons

The Dovakhiin is Akatosh because Shor is Akatosh.

I hate to say it, but a lot of this Alduin is still Akatosh stuff seems like excuses. I'd like to believe it, but it's really not working for me.

Most people joined with Oblivion, and thus expect Good Guy Akatosh. So Bethesda keeps him just that. Hell, the Nordic religion itself takes second place to the Nine/Eight Divines. Only Shor really survived the transition.

And even then, Shor has been partially swept under the rug. He's mentioned here and there, but for actual worship, it's absent. Poor space god, *in Rodney Dangerfield Voice* no respect, no respect at all.

And hey, I got into the series when OB came out, and yet here I am disliking how Alduin was treated.

Actually, I'd imagine Shor's role as ruler of Sovngarde would be his day-to-day role.

Same here, actually. Part of the reason I still like Cyrodiil.

Yeah, but it seems not many people invoke his name much. Talos has taken most of this, understandably, but a good amount has been wrongly handed over to Akatosh.

I don't see much of Akatosh, really.

...okay you got me there. I just hate Akatosh a lot.

But Akatosh wuuuuuuuuuuvs you! :hubbahubba:





Wait a sec, though... is there even a shrine to Akatosh? Outside of the one shrine in Solitude, where they just sorta crammed in the rest of the Divines (minus Talos)?

And also... why don't the Thalmor just hang out near shrines to Talos? I know I made a trip by one every time I went to Markarth or Whiterun (non-Stormcloak cities, at least initially), and it would have made their job a lot easier if they'd been there to see it. It's not like they have a problem with kidnapping people, after all.

There are a lot of Talos shrines out in the middle of nowhere. Theres even one slightly beyond Skyrims coast. The Thalmor have more of a presence in western Skyrim, albeit its not in large numbers. Should that be the case, that would only propel the Stormcloaks cause and shift the fight to their side, rather than keep the two sides fighting like idiots in the middle of a cornfield. Also, according to a book I stumbled across, the Thalmor don't decide to kidnap you right than and there...they watch, and wait.

I keep wondering what all the fuss was about. Other than Alduin mentioning that he is "firstborn of Akatosh" and M'Aiq, Akatosh is completely and utterly ignored in dialogue. You rarely ever hear mention of him, although you hear about Stendarr, Tsun, Mara, Dibella, Talos, Shor, Arkay, Kynareth, and Kyne quite a bit. Julianos and Zenithar also seem to be missing. I mean, beyond the amulets and occasional shrine.

EDIT: To clarify, the lack of much Akatosh seems to me to be the game's way of implicitly reinforcing Variety of Faiths.

Mortals aren't simple to explain, either. (Only in our fantasies.)

Fractal, yeah. Everyone's a fragment of the One-ness. Akatosh meant something, though. His identity was not just "Time God," it was Time God as-the-Selective-selected. He was not the same as Auri-el, Alduin, Alkosh, etc, though they are all fragments of the Dragon/Time God. "Akatosh" may have been on the tongue of Pelinal, but he's also shouting praises to Reman. Although Aka means dragon in an older language, that's true, the Selective made the Akatosh.

Dagon also calls Alduin "Aka" in the Aldudagga.

But they can be resurrected.

I don't buy it. They're aliens from the "Dragonland." Why would a dremora necessarily have the answer? They're as mortal as... a mortal.


Because "Aka" means dragon, and Ald is the Dragon. He does not call him Akatosh, and if he had, this is not necessarily the Akatosh the Selective created.

I've never heard of Aka meaning dragon.

Aka-vir; Dragon-Land... ring any bells?

http://www.imperial-library.info/search/node/Aka

They're immortal. They just don't respawn like a Daedra does. Their soul seems to exist in some stasis, which is why Alduin can revive them. If a Dragonborn (or any other dragon, IIRC) kills them, then they get their soul devoured. Then they're dead.

Dragonrend also makes them taste mortality: Mortal Finite Temporary.

The Dremora have the answer because they're both et'ada.

It does now. :spotted owl:

Then mortals have the answer. All they need is a hypnotist and a patient. That's how a true master works. The ancestor moths would know.


I wasn't certain there was an official source, until I did the search. It may have been inference.

They seem to do this. Markarth has an abandoned shrine to Talos, and the only quest where you can help the Thalmor get a devotee executed.