I'd like to know what, specifically, makes turnbased gameplay outdated.

Actually the most popular things make the most money. Call of Duty, highest grossing piece of media ever, basically did it all on popularity.

Also the red barons triplane is outdated, its madness that anyone would like it.

Ok here is my attempt at a compromise. I just want to sort some things out.

I can understand that because of the dated play style and graphics of Fallout and Fallout 2, that people would have an aversion to play them. I can fully understand that. So I can see in that context you would call Fallout and Fallout 2 "relics."

Still in terms of how great the writing is and how great of an RPG they are, they are still very much relevant to the Fallout Universe. Their stories, their canon is key to Fallout Universe. In the terms of their writing and RPG style, they are very much like New Vegas. Whereas Fallout 3 is not even close to being like the Originals or New Vegas. Therefore, it isn't a very good Fallout Game.

Now If you are saying everything from Fallout and Fallout 2 should just be completely ingnored and forgotten, than you are crazy IMO. If people don't want to play the Originals because they are "old" then fine. But at least have an understanding of the originals.

If someone hates Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout Tactics and New Vegas. Yet loves Fallout 3 to death, then they aren't a fan of the Fallout Universe/Series. They are a fan of Fallout 3.

Fallout and Fallout 2 aren't just going to go away. They are the base on which the Fallout Universe and canon came from. If Bethesda wanted them forgotten they would have just called Fallout 3 "Fallout" and completely rebooted the series.

So please do tell us. Do you feel everything from Fallout and Fallout 2 should be ignored and forgotten? Or are you just talking about the dated graphics and play style (top down isometric turned based)?

Nothing. There are more people who like a certain type of gameplay than there are people who like another and thats it.

Yeah, but the reason it is considered outdated by every other Bethesda fan (by merely looking at how it worked 14 years ago and not giving a single thought what it could be now) is what I meant. And more so, knowing that real time gameplay is even older form.

Indeed, REal time is pretty much as old as TB. I guess that "outdated" too so we should abandon it for some thign else eh?

That I do.

Fallout New Vegas developed by Bethesda would've been like the original, except with limited RPG choices (for example, limited ways on how to confront Benny), very obvious black and white factions and no ability to join the evil factions. You would've been shown an NCR that's absolutely perfect and stands for AMERICUH along with a Brotherhood of Steel that gets along with them beautifully and loves saving kittens. Furthermore Caesar's Legion wouldn't be an attempt at unifying society under one banner to serve a higher purpose, but rather some guy doing it all just so he can see if he could get the "high score" for tribes conquered and nothing more. Also Caesar would have a curly black moustache and would have a habit of going "MWAHAHAHA." Oh and also random Legionnaires will decide they don't like a Profligate such as you and decide to challenge you on your way to meet Caesar, when you go to meet him for Mr. House. Mr. House's Securitron army being activated would actually kill Caesar right then and there, but not the Legate, thus the game continues.
Mr. House would be portrayed as initially an ally of the NCR, but eventually evil as the storyline progresses in that the NCR is perfectly willing and able to work with House and just as darned nice about it as they can be, but Mr. House refuses, wanting to rule everything and have the most shiny toys, resulting in you having to kill him. This would be praised by the Writer's Guild of America as being the most morally grey moment in a video game ever; having to kill a potential useful ally who refuses to play along, for which Bethesda would recieve Best Written Game of the Year.
The Great Khans are just another raider gang that you can't work with at all. They attack the player on sight at all times.
Jacobstown doesn't have Dr. Henry, but instead they're asking you to come in contact with the NCR for them and tell them the mutants of Jacobstown are peaceful, then the NCR will send a team of doctors who will know how to fix the schitzophrenia problems immediately.
The Followers of the Apocalypse are a part of the NCR.
Westside is stealing water from the NCR not to grow crops, but to make drugs for the Fiends, all in a xenophobic attempt to drive off the NCR.
Moore and Oliver are great leaders and Hsu and Hanlon love them and love and respect all of their decisions.
The Brotherhood never fought the NCR at Helios ONE, but rather met them with open arms there. The NCR politely asked the Brotherhood to reactivate Helios ONE and Hoover Dam for the people of Vegas, which they did. Thus, the Brotherhood are basically the scientist-soldiers in charge of Helios and Hoover Dam in cooperation with the NCR.
Hardin loves Macnamara. Elijah is just some random guy, not a BoS scribe.
Cass doesn't have a revenge option; she INSISTS the player do as the NCR says and provide evidence for the wonderful bureocracies in California.
Veronica's sidequest has nothing to do with the Brotherhood being stupid as [censored], but rather she's trying to prove to the Brotherhood that she could make Hoover dam run at 200% efficiency with new technology, but they're too stubborn to listen to how much of a genius she is.
Hanlon doesn't have a quest and never had a campaign to sabotage the Rangers. He loves the push eastwards and believes he is truly bringing love and democracy to a world that desperately needs it.
The NCR will not hunt down the Enclave Remnants, but rather accept their help after a 1 minute dialog cutscene where the NCR becomes convinced the Remnants are legit mofos and not evil.
ED-E's tapes would reveal that Whitley was forced to work against his will, and that the Lone Wanderer made sure to rescue him and all other innocents before bombing the crap out of Adams Air Force Base.


The All-American is the best gun in the game, having 0 spread, x5 crit rate and base damage of 50, along with the firing rate it currently has. Alternatively you can use the Q-35 Matter Modulator, which basically functions the same except it's an energy weapon.
There are no traits.
One perk per level.
Big Guns instead of Survival.
Agility and Charisma barely do jack [censored] as SPECIAL stats.


Dead Money would lose it's theme of knowing when to "Let Go" and the backround story of why the casino was built entirely, instead being just another government experiment without Sinclair's involvement at all (and no explanation for why the goverment wanted to experiment with a poisonous cloud or zombie-like creatures on rich individuals) all while you face the story of "kill the bad guy so you can leave." Also the Gold Bars weigh nothing at all and there are no radios to set off your bomb collar. Holograms can also be killed by shooting at them enough.

Honest Hearts would actually be about the same, except you can't teach Joshua his true motives and there's no side quests for Waking Cloud or Follows Chalk, or if there ARE then the ending is always peaceful and good for them. Joshua is just an all-around great guy who would rather defend Zion than run. Also Joshua was never a Legate, but rather Caesar told him and Bill Calhoun to join or die, and Joshua refused LIKE A BOSS and then was thrown off the Grand Canyon for refusing. Ever since then Caesar has hunted him. Joshua is praised as being incredibly morally grey for executing Salt-Upon-Wounds like a badass (this automatically happens) and Bethesda wins Best Character Design from the Writer's Guild of America.

Old World Blues, though it lacks plot already, would actually have no plot at all. Mobius would've taken your brain not to prevent the discovery by the Think Tank, but because he's a kleptomaniac mad scientist. You'd have to kill him and the rest of the Think Tank. Also no side-quests for the Think Tanks.

Lonesome Road, Ulysses would just be a Legionnaire looking to bomb the west in the name of Caesar. At the end you kill him and reroute the bombs towards Caesar's land. There isn't a theme of "War never changes - Men do," but rather....well actually there's no theme at all. The theme is you found out about a Frumentarii who might've discovered nukes and now you have to stop him in the name of AMERICUH. You have no history with Ulysses as pre-defined character history is an absolute sin that the Holy Bethesda would never commit.

There's also a fifth DLC where you find out you didn't REALLY win the Hoover Dam and the Legion is still trying under the lead of their new Legate, Legate MAXIMUS. This DLC creates post-ending gameplay where you hunt them down in Arizona and then find out they've got a nuke factory up and running and you detonate all of the nukes within the factory, thus blowing up the Legion once and for all! Afterwards there's post-ending gameplay forever, though the Mojave looks exactly the same pre- and post-war.

I approve dis gaem.

Brilliant! LET'S SHIP!

this how i sounded after reading all that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzPmNhsJpbg

Fallout 3 has far more substance than beforius fallouts. Fallout 1%2 skills were always just *click* and done. Lets give example science in old relics games were just clicking science button and cliking some computer console etc. Lockpick was same way. In fallout 3 science was great complex minigame and also lockpick was same way also. Repair skill also had more substance in fallout 3 as you could also repair items with it. In old fallouts you have indestructible weapons and armors, in fallout 3 both takes damage when used them.

In fallout 3 you could also made self made weapons&stuff.


Turnbased is outdated because its slow, it doesnt add anything to gameplay and makes combat lame luck based and makes combat pseudo tactical. Even fallout 3 has more tactical approach in combats than many people`s praised jagged alliance 2. Also turn based has been used, because its easier to make and also before computers werent powerful enough to make realtime rpg game. Fallout 3 managed finally to become massive number crunching game but same time managing to keep real time combat.

The hacking minigame from 3 was not complex. It was a guessing game. Also Fo3's VATS was about as RPG the gunplay could get and even that isn't saying much. Most of the time your accuracy would be in either the 80s or the 90s no matter what your stats were for Small Guns and low skill in Explosives only affected accuracy not their effectiveness. NV also had its crafting system which expanded upon Fo3's unique "make em yourself weapons".

Fallout 3 was the first game of the series I played, so it did something right because it got me hooked to not only the fallout franchise but I ended up playing and loving tes off the back of it. I can understand what the OP means by FO3 feeling more "fallouty" than NV, it's much more of a wasteland with unique locations that you only really discover if you explore away from the main story line. FO:NV the map layout didn't seem as good to me, although the plot, character and faction interaction was much better - that opinion might have something to do with FO:NV being pretty much unplayable on the PS3 though, the bugs and crashes completely ruined the game for me.

For the perfect game I wish the design team from beth created the map and locations whilst the obsedian team come up with the script and plot. I strongly suspect the next FO game will be in new england Commonwealth with the base of the story revolving around the institute and railroad, involving Dr. Li. I suspect this as bethesda will be wanting to stay away from cannon clashes with basing a game in the west

I also can't see how the game with have a vault dweller as the protagonist, given vault 101 only worked because of the "no one leaves no one enters" policy, would be cool if you went through the game unsure as to whether you are a robot or not.

Maybe he was just typing real fast. It happens....

If turn based is outdated, explain why it's still present in a lot of modern RPGs? Hell, it's still present in FO3 and FNV in the form of VATS.

And tbh, the direction only changed when Bethesda obtained the rights to the series.

See, I dislike ignorant, my-way-or-the-highway arguements like these; as if to say "It's not modern so it must svck lolz", no, fact is, you just don't have an appreciation for what made the series great. The originals are what made the series great and FO3, while a good game itself, isn't really a good Fallout game. Which is why many of us dinosaurs consider it a trip downhill and FNV a trip back uphill.

You mean that boring, repetitive minigame where you pick a random word, scroll through gibberish to sniff out duds and replenish chances, and then pick another word? If that's complex and 'fun' to you than... I just don't know.

The Originals were on a whole other level with writing, quests, and characters than Fallout 3 AND they came a decade beforehand. That's really unacceptable for a company to purchase a series where writing is the most important thing and turn it into a dungeon crawling action game with 'fun' minigames and some pretty bad writing when there is any writing at all.


Wrong.
Turn based is a design choice, I have played Fallout: Tactics with real time and it just didn't fit IMO.

Look at all of these stradegy games, Civilization for example, that have always (and probably WILL always) use turn based combat because it requires more thinking about statistics and less about hiding behind a rock, jumping out, shooting an enemy, and hiding back behind a rock.

And it was a design choice for the originals aswell, the Elder Scrolls series (I am using this as an example because this is Bethesda's forum) has been around since 1994 (for those of you who are bad at math that is a whole three years before Fallout 1, and it wasn't the first first person real time game out there) and has always had first person, real time combat.

Its a design choice, one you do not seem to like but a design choice none the less.

So would you guys want FO4 to be a TB game?? surely the FP free roam style is much more fun?
I think there is a small market for TB games, civilisation for example. But action RPGs like FO should no longer be TB. Not when we have the potential to make game like FO3 or NV

I would.
Isometric too.
With a hexagon walking system.
And with map nodes.

This does not equate a more "Fallouty" game.

I partially agree with this post.

I like the new games being first person and real time (I was just point out why he was wrong about TB being used by the originals) but I no longer want the games to be labeled (or able to be labeled) as action RPGs.

That fits for games like Mass Effect and the Elder Scrolls where you really can't go through the game without killing and how your choices don't have as much of an affect (or in TES case no affect).

I like Fallout being a game where I don't have to kill anybody and how there are (or at least should be) at least half a dozen ways to finish a quest.

I wouldn't mind it, and yeah I don't want fallout to be and "action RPG/ FPs with dialogue." Thats not what fallout was about anyway.

Yes.


No. It focuses too much on filling out the wilderness and seeding the map with enemies instead of keeping the emphasis on the settlements and major points of interest.


Well I don't want Fallout to be an action RPG either.

I dont really understand 'i dont want FO to be an action RPG'
even if action was optional it would still be an action RPG????