Yeah turns out its the town drunk, I've never seen him at all when I went there.

Well they all look the same.

Ah, now I get it.

I totally agree. Ashur was great, and as most people around here will know, i think Autumn was fantastic.

Gabriel Thanks for bumping it.. what a great thread to read..

Let me add a few things: (warning long read)
I played FO1 first... why?: i loved JRPG's and took a chance at a western take on TB gameplay.. without having the weird Japanese Gods and Fantasy brahmin dung to walk through..
Truth: I hated it.., I loved the setting but hated nearly everything else.. The CD (yes) ended up in my games cupboard..
And I did for 7 years.. as a matter of fact I also started to dislike the repetiveness of Japanese RPGs.. One gets older and according to sociological research one changes his/hers taste every 2-3 years untill they truly reach maturity.
On to 2004. I owned a PS2 and read great things about this new episode in the DQ saga.
DQ VIII: I was blown away.. a turn based RPG which had fun characters was and is gorgeous to look at etc..
I was hooked once again.. so being a bit older.. and still loving TB elements (huge civ 1-4 fan... civ5 meeeh) I turned back to FO. Started it again and loved it.
Immediately went on to FO2. Which was both great and disappointing (I thought setting wise and with the random encounters they went a bit over the top)

I went on.. got a different job, left college.. etc..
But still loved videogames.. so I went on to that other love of mine: Free roam action games or what is generally known as the sandbox game.. Enter GTA III and its sequels.
(to this day I still play San andreas, AC II and beyond and GTA4)

So I was tipped by a friend that I should (just bought a 360 for GTA4, remember it was not going to be released for PC) try out Oblivion..
Man did I hate that game.. I hated the leveling, hated the bland voice acting even more... but loved the setting...and after some time... (with a year passed) I appreciated the game somewhat.
Shivering Isles came out... and that was when I actually thought Wow!!. Great setting, choices (bland yes... but they were there)..
And then FO3.. Having rediscovered the originals just a few years prior I was like wow.. Hell yes..

Played the game..and I loved it... Why because I did understand that a new studio made a (decent) first effort besides the franchise which made them famous...
Don't get me wrong it is bland as hell, characters are cardboard cut-outs, factions and karma are almost a caricature compared to the originals etc..
But I judged the game as is: A continuation of an RPG franchise that was into an action FPS with RPG elements as is..
Did I like how they treated the lore.. well no..Do I like that the franchise needed an FPS(or TES) treatment .....no...
Do I understand the game...? Yes.. This is (read it well Styles ) a risk free undertaking: Trying to launch a mass appeal franchise.. And voila they succeeded
Everything which was remotely risquee was either removed or nerfed..
Drugs became (TES) potions, six is not present, ambiguity has been cut out.. etc.. Why because this was (financily) a high risk title for Bethesda....
A new setting with "rules" they did not understand.
The result: An Action "RPG" which was miles above their own titles (exploration, loot uniqueness etc...) and arguably a class above anything which was released at that time.. (sandbox and rpg: Critics all go:HELL YES)
Now compared to the originals... it was a step back: The story was simplified.. but the game (with disregarding some quests) was fun to play.
So on its own thoroughly enjoyed it.... however in the franchise (being completely different games) I love FO1 and FO2 (and tactics) better than FO3...
But FO3 (on its own) remains a good game, then FO:NV came out.. and... I was even more wow!! Why because, even if you encountered bugs, see the landscape as is (which is far less impressive whether you like it or not than FO3) ... story-wise it brought back a lot of things I came to except from the originals..
( including both the quirkiness and the moral ambiguity)
Given that this was rather succesful.. I do have a slim hope that FO4 will be something special..
Skyrim has diminished that hope...everything which was great in Oblivion/TSI has been nerfed out (ie Choices, moral ambiguity, skill and trait builts) The fact that (as someone who hated the leveling in both morrowind and oblivion) someone like me actually appriciated the "dumbing down" is troublesome..

As an allegory:
Compare it to the development of formula one.
The sport showed us a dangerous but enjoyable car parrade in which the best driver always had a chance.. to win..
It has developed into a multi million dollar carparade in which engines and tires prevail over who actually is the best driver.

So obviously and very arguably the sport was better to watch in the seventies eighties until the mid nineties..yet since the mid nineties world wide audience for F1 races had nearly doubled.. See the point...

I suggest otherwise, he should have beat the stupid out of his friend.

I don't want it to go back to TB.

Sorry TB enthusiasts.

But I want the lore, dialogue, and story to return in depth like it was in the originals.

Whenever I think of Papa Kahn I think this.

Order from Papa Kahn's chem delivery service!

Mentats on the house.

Sorry triple post.

As for Styles saying if your a fan of Fallout 3 and haven't played the originals you aren't a real Fallout fan I have a few things to say.
First, "Harry think he beat your head now."
And people decide what they're fans of and what they want and don't want to do.
If I started with F3 on my Xbox 360 and choose to read wikis instead of playing the originals with inferior graphics, who are you to say I'm not a true fan?
I love the story and the lore; and I also love occasionally mindlessly blowing things up.
I am a TRUE Fallout fan because of my love for the story.
So Styles and the Styles supporters, feel free to step off that pedestal anytime you want.

Those that bash the originals and only see Fallout 3 as the one and only Fallout game aren't real fans in my books. I don't care if you haven't played them just as long as you respect them and see their worth. I believe you would be much better off playing them rather then just reading wiki. You can read about six all you want but reading it and doing are two different things. Same for Fallout. Ok that might be some what weird I just compaired six and Fallout but I am hoping people get the point.

As for my pedestal, I rather like it up here

It's like saying, I went to the grand final of my local football team and cheered them on to win, but never went to any of their other games but I saw some results, and then you watch another game and all of a sudden you have the right to say that they aren't the team they used to be and are supposed to be? nope.

and to MydsteriousD, story alone is only a part of what Fallout was, just because you read the story to getting a broader picture of what the world is about doesn't make you a true Fallout fan.



on a somewhat related side note, to me F3 felt like what The Phantom Menace was to Star Wars

And with that my respect for Styles increases. Stand on that pedestal with your friends Vault boy, you guys have been wandering the wastes for long enough.

Inherently what Styles (and others!!) are claiming is that:
If you played FO3, didn't play or know any of the other games.. You cannot really call yourself a fan of the
franchise.
You can call yourself a fan of said title and even love the lore... but with pure logic one can't really say they are fan of the franchise.
Like Styles has said: most old-timers either like FO3 or love FO3 but started to appreciate the originals better.
No one in this thread (some usual suspects exceptions excluded) is claiming FO3 is a bad game... but they do state it is a bad FO game.

So in general: If you embrace the series... you can call yourself a fan..
However if your entire frame of reference is based on FO3 one cannot logically make this assertion.
If you did play all the games you still can judge FO3 as not being a good game, as a Fan one places this one episode in the framework of the entire series..
In other words while FO3 either simplifies or neglects lore, FO:NV embraces these elements and integrates it within the new gaming mechanics.
Thus a fan of the story even if they read it on the wiki should appreciate FO:NV better..
Compare it to this:
Can you judge a franchise by one title... no...
If you liked the LOTR films you will not necesseraly like the Tolkien Novels.
If you love the Hobit, you might actually hate the more advlt orientated LOTR.
If you love Graigs (Daniel Graig) Bond... you are not necessarily a James Bond fan or vise versa..
Fandom might be subjective...but it does apply to the entire franchise.
I myself am a huge Alien fan.. yet while I own all the movies... I only realy appreciate the first two.. They might be dated..but I love them.. and while I am disappointed in the other movies I can still see what made the idea great.
(Off Topic: psyched for Prometheus)

I understand people not wanting to play the originals. They are old turned based isometric top down view games. They aren't everyones cup a tea. But if you are interested in the Fallout Universe I recommend you give them a try.

You can get Fallout, Fallout 2 and Tactics for less then $20 bucks. You can buy them off steam or buy hard copies. Really what do you have to lose? $20? That's less than going to the movies today. If you have a computer made within the last 12 years or so you can play them just fine. Spend a Saturday just trying them out. I am sure it will grow on you. If not then you lose about $20. If you really are interested in the Fallout Universe than $20 isn't that big of a risk to lose.

Even those that really really hate the idea of playing those old games, I still say give them a try. You wouldn't be the first person to say "I'll never play those crappy old games!" only to completely change your mind after playing them.

But like I said I don't care if you don't play them, just as long as you respect them. I just feel you would be better off taking the time to play them. For less then $20, it is a steal. There was a website giving out Fallout for free ( legally).

I also want to mention that Fallout Tactics has a real time option.

to add to what thorgal said, I think the orignal creation of a franchise is what is most important and really defines what it is about, such as with Alien, Star Wars, James Bond etc, and this plays heavily with what is true to the franchise.

I've said it once before, but I'll say it again. I made a point to play the originals before I posted in the Fallout Series Discussion and Universe forums. It helps immensely when discussing Fallout so dinosaurs don't have to elaborate about everything, I completely recommend it. They are also a lot of fun and have some amazing writing.

but then you walk into what qualifies as a fallout fan ? I have completed fallout 1. Halfway through 2 completed 3 and fonv does that alone make me a fan ir not?
I have a friend who has only played fonv and fo3 is he a fan?
What makes you fan is the emotuons you have towards it and the enjoyment it brings you not wether you have played the majority of them or certain installments would a person who has only played fo1 and fo2 be a fan?

well I guess there should be a distinction between being a fan of Fallout, or being a fan of Fallout 3, or a particular one of the series...I will use the Star Wars example again, I love the original 3...but the new 3 were disappointing even though I did enjoy them to an extent, but I would call myself a Star Wars fan because it refers to the originals only, and if someone only liked the new prequels then they should refer to themselves as a fan of the those, not Star Wars as a whole.

Ohh I agree it's just people can't start throwing around what requirements you need to be a fan..

Who said I didn't play NV? TA
And Serbs for you to compare Fallout to football and say I showed up for the finals is just ridiculous.
First Fallout can't be compared to football because of its depth and story.
And not you or anyone else can tell me what a "true" fan is without that being your opinion.
Growing up I learned very quickly peoples opinions are biased and shaped based on their own perception.
So to that I call you an annoying bug and calmly RAID you down. Goodbye Serbs
Now directing my post towards TA
"One with pure logic cannot.." You can't imply I don't have pure logic without setting up yourself to have it.
And what pure logic is varies with your opinion. For me not to be a fan because I didn't play the earlier titles is absurd.
I have spent 13+ hours reading about those titles to gain a better understanding of the game because I am a FAN of the franchise and wanted to know more about the earlier titles.
I pre-ordered NV the second it was available because I am a FAN of the franchise.
I am here doing this because I am a FAN of the FALLOUT franchise.
And you, nor anyone else can deny me that.
I

the football was related to the original post, and was just concerned in relation to saying what you think something IS, and saying it wasn't that in a recent version of it, when you have only had limited recent exposure to it.

who is this Serbs you speak of anyway?

You are a fan of the recent Fallout games, let's leave it at that.

And who was that MydsteriousD you were talking about?
Wise choice leaving it at that. I had just put on my steel toed boots

your name is long, a typo is bound to happen, mine has 3 letters, you added 2 to mine.
wow steel toed boots? you gonna kick my shins now?
So you agree you are a fan of the new Fallout games, and that's it?

Blame AP Euro your name reminds me of Serbians slang Serbs.
The Steel toes are because I called you a bug for your annoying post (relating Fallout to football) and RAIDed (bug spray) you. Yet you still persist.
So in short I put on the boots to finish you off.
No, the 13+ hours I spent reading about the original Fallout games prevents that from ever being said about myself.

I related a concept, which applies to anything really. How can the OP say it didn't feel like Fallout when he is only basing it on one experience, and it is not even the original experience.

And reading isn't playing the game, this is not a book, it is a game. You play it. Reading about it just gives you more back story. F3 is a different game to the originals...you are a fan of the new games, that distinction should be made. Just as Star Wars old and new...fans of the new that aren't fans of (or haven't watched) the original, so they should also make that distinction.

edit: no idea what AP Euro is, and you're lucky I'm not Croatian.