Could Lorkhan's "Jyggalag" be doing all of this, i.e. Lorkhan CREATED the world, so could his "other half" want to DESTROY it??

If we consider that Lorkhan is a Padomaic mostly, if not completely, then it's plausible that his murder could have "Malacath-ed" him and flipped on his "alter-ego."

I made a post like this in another topic, but no one replied to it and I decided to make a thread about it.

Yes.

Akatosh.

Akatosh.

Most clearly stated in http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/sporedream.shtml.

Dude, I know about the Akatosh/Lorkhan duality. I was asking if he could have a "Jyggalag"... like in the way Sheogorath had Jyggalag??

Like I said, he could be considered a Padomaic, so...

Dude, it's the same thing. Two halves of the same being. What do you think the Shivering Isles designers were copying? It's why everything in that game was split down the centre, as if it couldn't be more obvious.

Who? Lorkhan is padomaic. It says so everywhere. Killing a god doesn't "Malacath them". Trinimac's digestion metamorphosis is different and special.

I'm not sure if Shivering Isles didn't clarify it enough or if people are just reading too much into it, but it seems that lately everybody has been asking if Jyggalag is an aspect of Lorkhan, or if other Daedric Princes have dual-personalities, or any variation of these two questions.

Lorkhan and Jyggalag have no relation to eachother, and just because Jyg and Sheo are two halves of the same coin doesn't mean everbody else has a case of dual-personality syndrome (Lorkhan and Akatosh notwithstanding).

From what I've gathered, that whole "Trinimac was eaten" thing may not have happened literally, which causes me to view the Sheogorath/Jyggalag thing in a similar light as Trinimac/Malacath.

I realize that they have no connection; I honestly don't see how someoen could connect Jyggalag to Lorkhan. I was basically asking if Lorkhan, being a Padomaic, could have a Sheo/Jyg-like duality.

And we already answered with "Yes. His name is Akatosh." But you seem to be looking for a connection between Jyg and Lorkhan because you keep bringing Jyg up.

That, or i'm misunderstanding what your actual question is.

I'm not speaking on the general duality, that is, Anu and Padomay, stasis and change, time and space, -X and X, etc., etc, blah blah. I really hate to word it like this, but I meant could Lorkhan have been "flipped" like Trinimac or Sheogorath; I only brought it up because it doesn't make much sense to me that Lorkhan would want to destroy the world. I was figuring his "flipside" would do that.

You mean like could Lorkhan have completely "changed into" somebody else like Sheo changed into Jyg?

Jyg and Sheo are the same individual. One just happens to pop up less frequently than the other.

Lorkhan and Akatosh are also the same individual. Both show up at the same time at different points in history, with the end result being one ripping the other's heart out.

In short, they're nothing alike except in the fact they both suffer from MPD.

Then, no. Moreover, there aren't any instances where Lorkhan was transformed to engender a radically different aspect of the same being. Lorkhan's disappearance was credited to have formed Sheogorath in Varieties of Faith, but Lorkhan didn't transform to Sheogorath, and that's contested with the claim that Sheogorath is just a cursed aspect of Jyggalag.

edited

Having not yet played through Shivering Isles (but having read plot synopses), I was under the impression that there was some special connection between Lorkhan and Sheogorath, that Sheogorath first appeared when Lorkhan's divine spark was torn from him, and that the nature of this special connection has not yet been fully explained.

It also crosses my mind that it might make more sense to assume that every Daedric Prince has some special connection to Lorkhan, because Lorkhan had that effect on people.

I would disagree somewhat---


I still hold that Lorkhan *IS* akatosh, just the flipside.


It is ironic that he and Lorhan are arch-enemies, but they never battle each other directly. Only through intermediates. Lorkhan with his "talos"-- and Akatosh with his Auriel.


It's a bit like Superman and Clark Kent. Its "Curious" why one is around, when another isnt.


It is much more like a sufferer of MPD. When one is around, the other isnt--- and they often times dislike each other.

As far as I know, Lorkhan wasn't transformed to form Auriel like how Trinimac or Jyggalag was transformed to form Malacath and Sheogorath, respectively.

'talos' is the champion god-king of Lorkhanites.

Auriel is the hero god of Anuiel/Akatosh.


They are distinct beings. Auriel/Trinimac became Malacath, after being eaten by a daedra lord. Talos did not, but both were created. (One ascended, while one descended. Both did not exist in the dawn. One must concentrate on the very nature of Zero Sum-- No benefit without deficit-- no deficit without an equal benefit. In the end, it all equals out to a null advantage. Akatosh's victory over Lorkhan left him crazy, and insane. (see 8 et'ada eat the dreamer)


Anuiel/Akatosh and Lorkhan have NEVER directly battled each other. They are connected.

That's right. Good on you.




Dude, Auriel = Akatosh (as a mortal).

Anuiel and Auriel together are the eqivlent of the Cyrodillic concept of Akaotsh. Anuiel is the god versian, Auriel the mortal version.

Auriel/Anuiel = Akatosh.

Thanks.

I have another question now, or rather, a thought: are Daedric Lords the only et'Ada that can cause a Trinimac/Malacath-like change?

That's kind of why I had that whole "Trinimac killing Lorkhan made him flip" type of thing; I didn't know if only Padomaics could do it.

edit: another thing that just popped into my brain was since Lorkhan is "god" of Space, then perhaps his "other side" could be...anti-Space or something like that?? I mean more along the lines of anti-Creation.

Lol, I hope that's not too confusing.

I once asked, on here, if Akatosh was a part of Lorkhan: Rather i said something like them being parts of a whole, but was promptly told "No", and left at that.

Good to have that cleared up. So the human head on the Akatosh statue is Lorkhan?

Or a merger of Auri-El King of the Aldmer and Alduin the World Eating Dragon. Akatosh and the whole Cyrodiilic phanteon was composed out of the Nordic and Altmeri religions afterall.

Or a hint at the possibility of a transformation between Man and Dragon, from King to God if you will. Tosh-Raka did it too.

Considering the Akatosh-Lorkhan thing isn't mainstream the two-headedness can be interpreted in several ways.

You don't really understand...

Think of all Anuic Et'Ada (regardless of whether they are Aedra, Daedra or Manga-Ge as those terms have no metaphysical value) as a positive number. Akatosh is obviusly +1 and let us say that Trinimac is +2 and Jyg is +3.

The Padomayics are the same way, except negative. Shezarr is definitly -1 and let us say Malacath is -2 and Sehogorath is -3.

Witt the exception of Akatosh and Sehzarr, each positive number has existed or around the same amount of "time" (which is a complete illusion) as their Negative counterparts.

Sehogorath and Jyg both have the same absolute value. Thus, they are the same but not.

Each Et'Ada has a counterpart (the term "other" has been coined pretty successfully in these forums). This is the biggest and most crippling limitation of the TES universe, the one Shezarr succsesful removed by creating mortals (mortals have no other).

It also seems that only one of the two beings can occupy the same space (also an illusion) at the same time (also an illusion). Thus, Trinimac was not transformed into Malcath, he was simply replaced by his preexisting other. The same with Jyg and Sheo during the greymarch cycle. In this way, Gortwag hopes to reawaken the "sleeping" Trinimac and replace him with his other Malcath again.

Meh. Tosh-Raka needs to hurry about and invade Tamriel, and quit sitting on his fat ass eating all the Tsaeci... (spelling)

I'm sure this will be covered by some future lore, but till then I suppose it falls under the heading of spoilers... read at your own disgresion.

What creation myth stated that Lorkhan created the mudus? I must read it

I always imagined it as they were the same individual with MPD. Plus, it's amusing to imagine Akatosh ripping Lorkhan's heart out and then realizing a moment too late, "Crap, that's MY [censored]in' heart, too!"