could Nerevar be in the game? : V - Skyrim

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:45 pm

Vvardenfell is gone, but I doubt the living god didn't see that coming. He's still out there somewhere.
CHIM

You mean he just lost his divinity, and hid, knowing very well what will happen? What a jerk, but well, let's add cowardice to his sins.

If he returns in skyrim I really hope we can treat him properly this time - being hung, drawn and quartered is the proper penalty for both regicide and advltery with the queen.

» Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:42 pm

Canonically it makes almost as much sense for the Adoring Fan to be the Nerevarine, since he does seem to be immortal...

Okay, not really, but it amuses me a lot to think so.

» Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:28 pm

You mean he just lost his divinity, and hid, knowing very well what will happen? What a jerk, but well, let's add cowardice to his sins.

If he returns in skyrim I really hope we can treat him properly this time - being hung, drawn and quartered is the proper penalty for both regicide and advltery with the queen.

Vivec achieved CHIM, he demonstrated that at his trial and what he did to Azura. I'd say he retained his divinity.
Because of this, you couldn't kill him through normal means.
He walked one of the ways.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:56 am

Vivec achieved CHIM, he demonstrated that at his trial and what he did to Azura. I'd say he retained his divinity.
Because of this, you couldn't kill him through normal means.
He walked one of the ways.

No matter what the Sermons of his misled disciples say. Vivec drew his divinity from the Heart of Lokhan, he and Almalexia were the first to do the unthinkable, they forced Sotha Sil to join them, Voryn Dagoth prevented them from doing even worse, lest in their lust of power the Chimer might have shared the fate of the Dwemer. Thanks to the tragic sacrifice of our Lord Dagoth Ur, King Nerevar's most loyal friend, the conflict was stalled, until the Heart of the Lokhan could be destroyed and with it the divinity of the impostor gods. The prophecy of the Nerevarine was fulfilled, although with tragic consequences. And in the end Vivec even complied and accepted that time has come to pay for his sins.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:29 am

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mysterious_Akavir

like with real history, you need to look at different sources and read between the lines if you want to be a historian instead of a theologist.

"Ka Po' Tun is the "Tiger-Dragon's Empire". The cat-folk here are ruled by the divine Tosh Raka, the Tiger-Dragon. They are now a very great empire, stronger than Tsaesci (though not at sea). After the Serpent-Folk ate all the Men, they tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red Dragons, but the black ones had fled to (then) Po Tun. A great war was raged, which left both the cats and the snakes weak, and the Dragons all dead. Since that time the cat-folk have tried to become the Dragons. Tosh Raka is the first to succeed. He is the largest Dragon in the world, orange and black, and he has very many new ideas."

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...

"Alduin (World Eater): Alduin is the Nordic variation of Akatosh, and only superficially resembles his counterpart in the Nine Divines. For example, Alduin's sobriquet, 'the world eater', comes from myths that depict him as the horrible, rauaging firestorm that destroyed the last world to begin this one. Nords therefore see the god of time as both creator and harbinger of the apocalypse. He is not the chief of the Nordic pantheon (in fact, that pantheon has no chief; see Shor, below) but its wellspring, albeit a grim and frightening one."

And Alduin and his [censored]es are theology. Tosh Raka is the Akaviri version of Akatosh (thus Alduin), so he is invading in a metaphysical kind of way. Though history and theology are connected in TES.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:42 am

No, for obvious reasons.
No canon main characters in TES, ever.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:09 pm

No, for obvious reasons.
No canon main characters in TES, ever.

Am I the only one who absolutely hates this?

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:05 am

um no not going to happen for a few reasons.
1, what would be the point his apperence would serve no purpose at all.
2. there is no cannocal nerevar.
3. nerevars story is over an done with it's the dovakiins turn now.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:45 am

No because it would take away the value of the player being Nerevar through the lands of Vvardenfell in TES III. Rather the hint is dropped the Nerevar headed to Akavir.

Can we hear about the Nerevar either referenced in books, rumors, or pro/antagonists? Sure. But meeting any of the people from past games is a no no.

So no Nerevar could in person never be in the game unless it's through some avatar.

Vivec could. Assuming he still lives.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:54 am

No matter what the Sermons of his misled disciples say. Vivec drew his divinity from the Heart of Lokhan, he and Almalexia were the first to do the unthinkable, they forced Sotha Sil to join them, Voryn Dagoth prevented them from doing even worse, lest in their lust of power the Chimer might have shared the fate of the Dwemer. Thanks to the tragic sacrifice of our Lord Dagoth Ur, King Nerevar's most loyal friend, the conflict was stalled, until the Heart of the Lokhan could be destroyed and with it the divinity of the impostor gods. The prophecy of the Nerevarine was fulfilled, although with tragic consequences. And in the end Vivec even complied and accepted that time has come to pay for his sins.

Dagoth's tragic sacrifice? He accessed the heart unprotected and destroyed his mind in the process.

Vivec himself brands himself the Thief he knows he stole divinity from the heart, but that does not stopping him from realising his place the Godhead and the Godhead's place in him.

"He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."

He openly admits he killed Nerevar and stole Godhood and that he killed the emperor but that's for another time... For a mortal he seemed to do pretty well against Azura and he did so with CHIM, so he accessed divinity another way, as well as just stealing it.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:41 am

Am I the only one who absolutely hates this?

I believe so. :cookie:

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:14 am

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

So some fans and developers fooling around in the forums is canon now?

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:06 am

Am I the only one who absolutely hates this?

I don't know, I kinda like it. It makes the characters seem much more ambigious in all of the games. It's up to my imagination what happened with the Nerevarine when he left for Akavir.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:09 am

What if the neravarine was in wearing a full set of armour that covered all of his/her features

» Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:40 pm

So some fans and developers fooling around in the forums is canon now?

It was almost mentioned in the Third Pocket Guide, but wasn't because they ran out of space. Or so I heard.

"Azura, Lord of Dusk and Dawn, maintains the domain of Moonshadow, a twilight country of shades and half-thoughts. Visitors to this isle have historically come mainly from the Dunmer of eastern Morrowind and the catfolk of Elsweyr, whose people both hold a great affection for the mother of immanence, though by separate roads. At the time of this writing, regular gateways to Moonshadow have been inaccessible for the last several years. Whether this has to do with the unlawful incidents at Hogithum Hall in the Capital City or mere whim of Azura herself, no one can say. Of course, Azura’s most famous acts of recent times is the Incarnation of the Nerevarine, a subject that while far beyond the scope of this pamphlet has been felt to the present day."

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/imperial-census-daedra-lords

It's not "canon", per say, but nothing contradicts it.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:33 am

So some fans and developers fooling around in the forums is canon now?

Does anything contradict it?
I'm not saying it's lore but it's interesting, MK wrote for Vivec so it's from the mind of the creator if you will.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:17 pm

No because it would take away the value of the player being Nerevar through the lands of Vvardenfell in TES III. Rather the hint is dropped the Nerevar headed to Akavir.

Can we hear about the Nerevar either referenced in books, rumors, or pro/antagonists? Sure. But meeting any of the people from past games is a no no.

So no Nerevar could in person never be in the game unless it's through some avatar.

Vivec could. Assuming he still lives.

Well actually Vivec is alive if I'm not mistaken. It was said he just started traveling or some sort of journey no? Though clearly he's now just a very powerful mortal. Again.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:13 am

No. Why not? Cheesiest form of fan service, that's why. Give them a bit of credit.
"Didn't you go to Akavir?"
" I thought so, but it was all a dream......"

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 1:38 pm

Nope he/she's dead.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:08 am

I don't know, I kinda like it. It makes the characters seem much more ambigious in all of the games. It's up to my imagination what happened with the Nerevarine when he left for Akavir.

Exactly. Giving the player the option to helm a role then overriding it all is a bad route. Now some things have to be made canon because of all the broad choices. At the very least what Nerevar looked sounded and acted like is to the player.

Fan backlash when a vague character is fully specified isn't pretty.

Fallout 2 for example. It wasn't bad however a lot of things were overwrote by making your Vault Dweller from 1 your lineage plus an elder of a village.

And that was minor.

» Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:29 pm

Will it happen? I don't think so. Is it possible? I think so. Think about it, the Nerevarine went off to Akavir right? What do they have in Akavir? Some sort of weird cat dude who transformed himself into a Tiger-Dragon (Tosh-Raka?) and basically wants to invade Tamriel. So is it so far fectched to think that maybe the Nerevarine (who is immortal btw) managed to use his/her smooth talking skills in order to get him/herself enamored with the dragon god and subsequently discover the secret to becoming a dragon god themselves? Keep in mind it's been about 200 years. Not to mention if the Nerevarine did become a dragon it would elimanate the whole, "Well my character was a Argonian, and the other dude's character was a Dunmer..." and why is that? Because ultimately the Nerevarine would have become a freaking dragon lol.

Exactly what I thought. Bethesda must've had a reason for him/her going to Akavir, and if it wasn't to just get him/her out of the way since (s)he's immortal, this would make sense. Seeing him/her return as a dragon would be awesome.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:21 am

Nope he/she's dead.

:facepalm:

Again, the Nerevarine still has the Corprus disease which makes him/her immune to diseases and aging. (S)he's immortal.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:35 am

Dagoth's tragic sacrifice? He accessed the heart unprotected and destroyed his mind in the process.

So said three other impostor gods and knigslayers

If we're actually talking out of character, and not arguing Ashlander vs. Ordinator, then well you found quite some proof ingame, that Voryn Dagoth actually prevented the Tribunal from accessing the Heart further. He nested in Red Mountain and defended it from the Tribunal, and they in turn built the Ghostfence, fortifying the status quo. Dagoth Ur is the tragic hero, driven to insanity by being twisted between the lust of power brought about by close proximity to the hearth for 4000 years, and his loyalty to Nerevar Indoril and his promise to protect the heart from being used again. Of course he bent that oath and settled with preventing it to be used to the same extent as Kagrenac, but from his point of view he needed to adapt to the new situation. In the end he was insane, and needed to be disposed of, but he still is the tragic figure of the whole story.

» Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:52 pm

He was trying to take over the world with the Blight and the second Numidium.

» Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:28 am

So said three other impostor gods and knigslayers

If we're actually talking out of character, and not arguing Ashlander vs. Ordinator, then well you found quite some proof ingame, that Voryn Dagoth actually prevented the Tribunal from accessing the Heart further. He nested in Red Mountain and defended it from the Tribunal, and they in turn built the Ghostfence, fortifying the status quo. Dagoth Ur is the tragic hero, driven to insanity by being twisted between the lust of power brought about by close proximity to the hearth for 4000 years, and his loyalty to Nerevar Indoril and his promise to protect the heart from being used again. Of course he bent that oath and settled with preventing it to be used to the same extent as Kagrenac, but from his point of view he needed to adapt to the new situation. In the end he was insane, and needed to be disposed of, but he still is the tragic figure of the whole story.

I too see Dagoth Ur as a tragic hero, but a threat nonetheless. He needed to be put down. But I do feel sorry for him.

Great character though.