I'm starting to warm up to the idea of dual wielding (i've always loved the idea of being to dual wield spells though) like a poster said a red guard wielding a longsword and dagger would suit them (i'm actually already imagining my redguard character)

However I don't want it to have something ridiculous like two longswords/warhammers/claymores although I highly doubt that would happen

You mean like in Morrowind where you had to put your weapon away to cast spells? Or use a scroll?

It wasn't until Oblivion that you could cast a spell without putting your weapon away.

Anything that is classified as a one handed weapon should be possible to duel wield. Excludes two handed swords and staffs/spears/polearms, bows (hehe) and possibly thrown weapons (one handed thrown should at least have a speed bonus since the other hand is holding the "ammunition"). But weapon weight (material) and reach should derive into weapon speed. Can you dual wield two daedric katanas at 40 lbs each at level 3? Yeah (or perk driven so it comes later), but it would drain your fatigue like crazy where you end up being useless. You may have special swords like falchions designed as a half axe for added blunt damage against armored knights (and often used and preferred by knights to defeat other knights).

Means that if you stumble upon an expensive daedric sword as low level, you might find it difficult to use because you're not strong enough to handle it. Also speed should be limited/capped. Even if you're superstrong, you can only get a maximum speed out of a weapon, but you don't loose stamina as quickly. So if you're strong enough to handle a daedric sword at full speed, it will drain you more than using a steel sword, but the steel sword will still be capped at its maximum speed.

Double wielding two swords is thus possible and beneficial to deal out more blows in shorter time, but it will drain your fatigue quicker. But the lighter the weapon, the more beneficial it becomes due to the increased speed.

Does this makes sense, or are "rules" too complex? I think as players we should deal more with common sense in what we do, and let the devs deal with the table works.

I don't see how dual wielding would be noticably faster normally. If you don't want to attack with two weapons at once (and thus giving up your defense and risking to hit your own arm with one of the weapons if the enemy blocks it), you fight with two weapons just as fast or slow as with one. Go ahead and try it out, get yourself two objects about sword-sized (of course nothing sharp), and try to attack first with one and then with two at once. You'll notice that the latter won't be much more effective. What is effective, however, is using one offensively and the other (shorter) one defensively (short, as to not interfere with the movement of the other arm). But then again, a shield does the same while covering a larger area.

So, can I dual-wield fists?
What if I put a spel in one hand and nothing in the other? Can I just punch with one fist?

This article rasied more questions than it answered. But that was expected, I guess.

Probably not hard for you to imagine this is true, some actually requested this during my days modding oblivion. All said "like One Piece".
:sadvaultboy:

I don't know about faster. But it is historically effective. One of Japans most famous and revered sword masters used a 2 sword style. And in Europe there are dagger and sword styles throughout the middle ages. Obviously when your life is on the line you wouldnt be using 2 weapons just to look cool.
In rank and file line troops and battlefield martial art it's probably vastly different.

2 sheilds would be quite funny

I just love to see the ability that some people has for talking about something they haven't the slightest idea about.

First, dual-wield swords is unrealistic indeed. The number of people that could effectively dual wield 2 swords in all history can be counted with the fingers pf our hands.

Second, while dual-wielding a sword + a dagger (much more common), you aim mainly at attack (aprox. 95% attack, 5% defense), to finish the combat quickly, and to use all your reflexes into finding weak points, so you can stab them with your dagger. It's all about what style you fit, your capabilities, even your physical complexion. If you're an hyperactive guy who loves to move around and flank your enemy, you'll do much more damage with a sword and a dagger than with a sword and a shield. If you're a turtle-like lazy man, you'll end up in pieces. Simple as that.

I wouldn't speak about realism in Elder Scrolls games. We have dragons, elfs, and magic.

Hotkeying different setups is great, so you can wield sword-shield on your first hotkey while you have spell-spell combo on another hotkey. I'm interested to see how
blocking is handled if character wields two swords, maybe "Q" and "E" buttons would be best for left hand and right hand blocks.

I do not disagree with that, Benrahir. But as you said, that "hyperactive" type is either soon dead or a real expert. I am afraid of seeing dual wielding as a common fighting style in Skyrim, which is just as bad as seeing everyone and their grandmother having claymores like in Oblivion. It just looks so wrong.

As you and I said, if dual wield, then probably with two bladed weapons, one of which is shorter. But 95% attack, 5% defense? I seriously doubt that. I don't say I'm an expert of medieval fighting technique, I'm just trying to imagine someone fighting effectively with two weapons, and I can't, outside of the well known duel situations with rapier and parrying dagger. And while I haven't fought with one, I know how they look, and they're often designed to be used extremely defensively, such as having devices to break the enemies blade or hold it with the dagger, and I generally have only heared about defensive use of them.



There's two sorts of realism. I don't want the game to be exactly like the real world, of course. So dragons, elves, magic - sure. But it should be logical. And if there's weapons like in the real world, and physics like in the real world, than those weapons should behave like their real world equivalents.

True, but what I mean is that this is fantasy game. So you should be able to make that scimitar dual wielding elf stereotype if you wanted.


Fore me, this is just adds more variety to build up more different characters.

Two spears in each hand would be AWESOME.

I will use it even though I don't care about it.



We've just canceled each other out. *Strokes mustache in a sinister fashion*

"holding 2 swords is not badass.. it looks comic booky and will compromise immersion.

I will not use it."


Well I don`t care about looking badass but my Assassin always uses 2 short swords if available in an RPG.

I will use it.

I think it would be good if it's treated as though your player has a dominant hand, like most of us do (left or right handed).

I'd like to be able to parry and throw weaker but faster jabbing blows with my left sword and when the enemy is off guard or staggered or there is an opening I can throw my big right hand with a powerful swing or chop. Bit like how a boxer uses his fists.

I quite liked dual wield in Halo when you could have a pistol charging in one hand and a plama rifle in the other.

Maybe there is more to how the swords are used than in Oblivion, maybe different swords/maces/etc are used differently?

lolopus!
All that dual wielding is gonna take away from the realism and immersion in a world of magic and dragons.

And like everyone else here, I might actually be a mage just so I can dual wield spells. Awesomesauce.

I agree with the above.

Well, just look at http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=SIPJ7S7T-IE here in Spain.

It's clearly not about defense. You can't properly defend yourself with that. It's all about agility, avoiding being hit and using your reflexes to the limit to hit your enemy. It's what you people would say "High risk-high reward" combat style.

If you see that video, you'll realize that it's all about attack, hence what I said about 95% / 5% attack/defense.

My exact thoughts.

And yes people I know it's optional, but tell that to all the NPC's that suddenly know the "art" of dual wielding.

Good video, that's like what I was saying just before your post. You use the weaker hand as the lead hand to parry or to throw jab like strikes to set up the more powerful right hand.

Well, at least here the dagger has been always more like "la puta jodida daga de fvck que me ha dado en las costillas mientras tenia baja la guardia" than anything else...

^^

Okay, I gotta agree for one thing. The guy who wields two longswords in real life is the guy who realistically ends up loosing a hand against an experienced swordsman. I've always preferred a single sword over two myself. However, I do love the ideal of a character that kicks the [censored] out of people while using two shortswords. Especially if the new battle engine incorporates feints and the use of kicks and footsweeps.

Benrahir. We have different definitions of defense then. The video of course shows aggressive fighting, but not in the way I am afraid it will look in Skyrim; you know, slashing with two axes like crazy. Of course, with such slender blades, and only thrusts being used as attacks, the typical 'blocks' are rather pointless. Still, if one of them had a shield, he'd have an advantage I believe, especially if you add armor to the equation and thereby make swords (especially very light ones) less effective.
That sort of fighting is all about duels, not about actual fights against people or even animals that just want to kill you in any possible way. Imagine two fighters wearing maille, one fighting like that and the other one with, to stay in the time period, a halberd or diquexe. How would the fencer even defend himself properly against a heavy, long weapon?

But you said it yourself, these are not weapons of warfare, but the types of combat in RPGs are mostly warfare-like. Fighting against several enemies at once, fighting with all sorts of weapons and equipment, that's not close to duel situations.

The kind of fencing in the vid is something I'd actually like in game, for the Redguards. It suits their style. But imo, it has no place in the Nord setting; and we both know that this isn't close to what "dual wield" will be like in the game.

I will dual-wield daggers 'til I die.

FOR THE EMPIRE!