Both sides raise a good argument IMO

Hence, what I believe should be done is this;

ANY playermade item should yield NO inspiration points

No abuse
No goldfarming cheats
No "give me the highest level item and ill insta-gain 12 crafting levels"

All you get is some of the materials back to make you that much closer to making a new item.

Extracting any item found should yield IP
That being said, you should only be able to extract that which you are leveled for.
This is to prevent someone from FINDING that "highest level weapon and give it to me so I can get 10 insta-levels in crafting" problem.

It's a challenge, a puzzle. I like solving puzzles. It's not fun for you, but it's fun for me. That's really all that matters in the end, no?

Anyway, I do get your point about the system and I see where you're coming from. From a RP standpoint, it makes sense the way it is now. From a gameplay standpoint, it doesn't. Not really.

I find it to be a pretty cool mechanic, but it does give an advantage to those with crafting friends or lots of money. Maybe decrease the bonus would make more sense? I wouldn't remove it completely as that negates any benefit of cooperation.

I like it because it makes you rely on other people and helps create a market between the crafters.

I did some pvp and I can see there being a lot of green items on the market from people who do pvp due to the sheer amount of rewards you get from just taking part. Unless they lower it I was getting spam by the minute taking keeps and resources.

You actually can't avoid it even by focusing, because the bank space is shared - so there's nowhere but each of your characters' bags to store their own kind of crafting mats in.

That's an interesting point - crafters won't be able to sell their crafted gear for much coin because the pvpers will be able to flood the market with cheap gear they got for free.

Honestly, I don't see much abuse happening with people who buy from gold farmers since you're not going to have a central place to go where people put stuff up for sale (no auction house) You'll have to go track down each. individual. piece. of. equipment. And that would get really old, really fast, running around town trying to find people that have 3 and 4 pieces of gear you can buy to extract. If they're THAT desperate, well, at least they still have to do some work for it, no? Most people are just going to want to free up their inventory space ASAP so they can go back to fighting, and they're not going to go to the trouble of trying to sell anyway. They'll just extract/NPC themselves.

A lot of us like things to make sense. Just allowing people to make progress by mindlessly making and unmaking things makes the game shallow and ... that ain't TES.

You can buy from each of your 5 guild shops. Someone with tons of gold will be able to buy gear fast because the crafters can't sell their crafted gear for much (see previous page - pvpers will flood the market with their free reward gear that gets mailed to them non-stop), so if someone buys a ton of gold from goldfarmers they'll be able to level crafts fast by buying up cheap gear from their 5 guild shops, and the crafters WILL be selling cheap because of the pvpers selling gear all the time.

I think the problem stems from them wanting you to get less from breaking down your own stuff but more from drops. They probably set it up so you only get reduced IP if it has YOUR name on it, which would explain why trading is better.

Made bs to 6 and it wanted me to make steel stuff by then. Sorry no steel, wasnt buying it from players that got it in Cyrodiil in a friggin beta.

I think itll be okay at launch but I agree its stupid to encourage people to swap crafted items solely for inspiration points.

Because mindlessly buying things is so much more RP

I like you.

I don't think it was ever meant to encourage people to swap. I think it was simply meant to encourage people not to break down what they make themselves. They'll probably just make it so items crafted by ANY player give reduced IP and leave it at that if they see it as a problem now that people are talking about swapping. Even then, there is a certain amount of extra work involved making arrangements with other people, being on at the same time so that one doesn't fill his entire bank with the stuff he wants to trade away to the other guy, etc, so they will probably just leave it as is. When you're doing the crafting, your bank and bag will be taken up with ingredients, you're not going to have space to horde much armor to trade, specially if the other guy doesn't log in for 3 days.

I know how you do it and i did it too but the underlying problem still remains that you used up all slot for 1 character with only 3 professional and at most 5 with all upgrades which you also need to constantly manage and going back and forth. Then you add in the fact that the bank is shared between alts. The current system heavily punish people who simply want to play more than 1 character. You can't also have extended session of questing with friends because you are basically going back to the town for managing the loot.

That would highlight the problem where crafted things become worth less than drops, so again the pvpers getting free gear spammed nonstop into their mailbox will make even more money than the poor hardworking crafters

It's a much more intensive RP to gather money to get what you need. If that is mindless then we have other problems

You actually think it's just fine to sit inside the crafting UI and level up?

The fact there is no auction house kind of suggests that it was never really intended to be a massive source of income in the first place. Something you do for guildmates maybe, and sell the occasional AMAZING piece you've made, but aside from that...

Agreed. And I break down stuff Im not using that dropped/quest rewards and only crafting things to use.

All of my IP comes from extracting.

reached level 8.75 Blacksmith developer target level 10 blacksmith

problem breakdown:

crafting and breaking down iron daggers diminishing returns

access to steel unknown except for killing npc's in Cyrodyll PvP and extracting from the drops if the drop was not cloth of wood or leather.

(problem multiplier ganking and lag deaths)

killing 20 player bounty reward at level 15ish + also gave some cloth, leather, wood, target is steel

access limited to starter area/ stonefall/

honestly I could have made level 10 blacksmith as this was the 3rd or 4th test invite with roll over characters. If only I had been able to play more than one day the first test

Final thoughts: As it is now crafting seems to be under progressing compared to leveling, leveling is progressing faster than crafting can keep up. My focus was on Blacksmithing.

Cyodyll has ebony ore which I gathered some but plain extracting from raw mats doesn't gain much inspiration. Had I managed access to the next area and found Steel I believe the progression would have been sufficient. I crafted a nice level 23 dagger from steel (Verde) improved it to green and then to blue. The mats came from extracting Cyrodyll NpC drops from random npc mobs and Cyrodyll dungeons.

This is my report.

Haha you actually tried to defend that position. Ahaha.

So you're claiming it's VERY RP to stand at a banker with a menu open covering half your screen and click words on a list to buy things from the guild shop BUT IT'S NOT RP to gather mats by mining and picking flowers in the open game world?

Don't even bother

It's a much more intensive RP to gather money to get what you need. If that is mindless then we have other problems

You actually think it's just fine to sit inside the crafting UI and level up?

That is not at all what you were talking about. You were defending making and destroying daggers should give as much IP as destroying a dagger someone else had made.

Yes.

I craft for me. Maybe a friend. No one else.

I want to be able to make ME things without having to grind or play a market.

Crafting systems as a primary gameplay option havent worked very well in most games.

Hell, even EQ2, which has an INCREDIBLE crafting community, is heavily dominated by carpenters in the RP department.

Imora Dal'Syn, master carpenter of Crushbone, formerly of Lucan D'Lere, at your service.

Welcome to TES.

To make things you need to gather mats. Following so far?

You realise in every other TES I can sit in the crafting UI to level, right?

Nobody is picking up on the "pvp will be gods of guild shops with their free loot, which will outclass the crafter prices" thing.