Crashing when changing cells : IV

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:25 am

Hey guys,

I usually try to fix problems in my Oblivion install myself, and not bother you fine folks on this forum with CTD's caused by my monstrous mod list

But I can't seem to figure this one out, even though I think I've pretty much narrowed down the exact event that causes my crash.
I believe it happens when cell buffers are purged, either through a PCB command or when entering or exiting a city (these gates seem to have a purge command attached to them). It doesn't always happen on every purge, but it does happen quite often.
It seems I have to options to fix this, 1. avoid purges altogether (doesn't seem viable), or 2. find out what's causing the purge crash. I've tried deactivating likely mods, but to no avail. Here's a load order for ya (it's scary, I know):

Active Mod Files:

Spoiler

00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3.2]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 5.0]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 5.0]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]05  Qarls_Harvest.esm06  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]07  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]08  VASE - core.esm09  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm0A  CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm0B  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]0C  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]0D  Artifacts.esm  [Version 1.1]0E  Kvatch Rebuilt.esm0F  Better Cities Resources.esm  [Version 5.1.0]10  CURP_Controller.esm11  Fundament.esm  [Version ision]12  CLS-Craftybits.esm13  HorseCombatMaster.esm**  TNR ALL RACES FINAL.esp**  TNR - ShiveringIsles.esp14  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.4.1]15  UOPS Additional Changes.esp16  DLCShiveringIsles.esp17  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.0]18  Better Cities .esp  [Version 4.7.0]19  Francesco's Creatures and Items Resources.esp  [Version 5.0]1A  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp  [Version 5.0]1B  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]1C  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp  [Version 5.0]++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1D  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]1E  Fran Armor Add-on.esp1F  Fran_Lv30Item_Maltz.esp20  Atmospheric Loading Screens - Random Quotes.esp21  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3.2]22  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3.2]++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]23  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.8.1]24  Realistic Water.esp++  Symphony of Violence.esp25  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.3.2]26  WindowLightingSystem.esp27  Book Jackets Oblivion.esp++  Item interchange - Extraction.esp  [Version 0.78]28  More_Vegetables.esp29  Never die.esp2A  Q - More and Moldy Ingredients v1.1.esp++  Qarls_Harvest.esp2B  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.7]2C  ReneersNotesMod.esp2D  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.4.3]2E  Crowded Roads Advanced less crowded.esp  [Version 1.3]2F  C&C - The Blackwood Company.esp30  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]31  kuerteeAutoSaveAndTime.esp32  kuerteeCleanUp.esp33  Dynamic Map.esp  [Version 2.1.1]34  DLCHorseArmor.esp35  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]36  DLCOrrery.esp37  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.3]38  DLCVileLair.esp39  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]**  Lair_mobs.esp3A  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp3B  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Mehrunes_mobs.esp3C  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]**  GrimbotsSpellTomes.esp++  MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp3D  Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs.esp3E  Armory of the Silver Dragon.esp3F  ClassyClothingCompendium.esp**  Armamentium female.esp40  XiaNewAmuletsV1.esp41  Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp  [Version 1.03]42  DLCThievesDen.esp43  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.5]44  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Thievesden_mobs.esp45  KDCircletsOOOOptimized - NPC Equip.esp  [Version 1.2]++  FCOM_KDCircletsOOOOptimizedNPCEquip.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  MMM_Runeskull_Rebalance_BETA2.esp  [Version Beta]46  Slof's Oblivion Robe Trader.esp47  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]48  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]49  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp4A  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4B  Loth's Blunt Weapons for Npcs.esp++  FCOM_LothsBluntWeapons.esp  [Version 0.9.9]4C  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]4D  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB3]4E  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]++  OOO_XiaNewAmulets Addon.esp  [Version 0.5]4F  Alluring Potion Bottles v3.esp**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]++  Adonnays Elven Weaponry for NPCs - Armamentarium piggyback.esp50  OOO 1.32-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.72]51  Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]52  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_EntropicOrderRebalance.esp  [Version 0.9.9beta2]53  FCOM_RealSwords.esp  [Version 0.9.9]54  Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]55  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]56  Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]57  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]58  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  VASE - Cyrodiil for MMM.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  Mart's Monster Mod - DLCHorseArmor+Slofs .esp  [Version 0.91]++  FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_ArcheryArmamentarium.esp  [Version 2]**  FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp  [Version 0.9.9]59  TIE.esp  [Version 1.48]5A  TIE+Frans NPC Inventory.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]**  Fransfemale.esp++  C&C - The Blackwood Company - OOO.esp**  EVE_StockEquipmentReplacer4FCOM.esp5B  Trade and Commerce.esp5C  Artifacts.esp  [Version 1.1]**  ArtifactsFemaleArmor.esp5D  BrotherhoodRenewed.esp  [Version 1.1.1]5E  Fighters Guild Quests.esp5F  JQ-AssassinQuest-NoMarkers.esp60  JSRandomTasks.esp  [Version 1.1a]61  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp  [Version 2.11]62  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp63  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp++  Kvatch Rebuilt - OOO Compatibility.esp64  Kvatch Rebuilt - Leveled Guards - FCOM.esp65  LetThePeopleDrink.esp  [Version 2.5]66  KragenirsDeathQuest-LetThePeopleDrink patch.esp67  Mages Guild Quests.esp68  Region Revive - Lake Rumare.esp69  The Ayleid Steps.esp  [Version 3.4]6A  TheElderCouncil.esp6B  TheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.esp6C  VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp6D  Cyrodiil Travel Services.esp  [Version 3.0.5]6E  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp6F  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]**  Battlehorn_mobs.esp70  DLCFrostcrag.esp71  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.4]72  DLCFrostcragReborn.esp  [Version 1.4.0]73  FrostcragRebornCobl.esp74  Knights.esp75  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  EVE_KnightsoftheNine.esp76  CUO_Bravil.esp77  Blood&Mud.esp++  Blood&Mud - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]78  Origin of the Mages Guild.esp  [Version 7.3.1]79  AFK_Weye.esp  [Version 2.31.COBL]7A  Rumare-AFK_Weye Patch.esp  [Version 2.2]7B  MannimarcoRevisited.esp7C  MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp  [Version 0.1]++  FCOM_Blood&Mud.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_SlofsRobeTrader.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_OMG.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_OMGSRT.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp++  FCOM_EnhancedDaedricInvasion.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  EDI - Aggression Fix.esp7D  ElsweyrAnequina.esp7E  road+bridges.esp  [Version 4.6.3]++  Fighters Guild Quests - Roads and Bridges Patch.esp7F  Better daedric shrines full.esp80  Faregyl.esp  [Version 2.0.7]81  Faregyl+Anequina Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]82  Feldscar.esp  [Version 1.0.13]83  Molapi.esp  [Version 1.0.1]84  Reedstand.esp  [Version 1.0.3]85  ShezriesTownsMaster.esp86  Urasek.esp  [Version 1.0.1]87  Vergayun.esp  [Version 1.0.9]88  CUO_Bruma.esp89  CUO_Chorrol.esp8A  CUO_Leyawiin.esp8B  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]8C  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]8D  xulTheHeath.esp++  MMMMWL-TheHeath patch.esp8E  XulEntiusGorge.esp8F  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]++  TheElderCouncil-FallenleafEverglade patch.esp  [Version 1.2]++  Anequina-Fallenleaf-Patch.esp90  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]91  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]92  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]93  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.3]94  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]95  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]96  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]97  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]98  Ravenview-Cloudtop-Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]99  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]9A  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]++  AFK_Weye Arrius_Creek Patch.esp9B  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]++  MMMMWL-RollingHills patch.esp9C  xulPantherRiver.esp9D  Blood&Mud-PantherRiver patch.esp9E  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]9F  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1.1]A0  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.7]A1  RegionReviveLakeRumare-ImperialIsle patch.esp  [Version 1.3.4]A2  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]A3  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A4  Blood&Mud-CheydinhalFalls patch.espA5  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.espA6  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]++  Lakewood+AspenWood Patch.esp  [Version 2.0]A7  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A8  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.4]++  Feldscar+Snowdale Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]A9  FrostcragReborn-Snowdale patch.esp++  OOO-Snowdale Patch.espAA  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp  [Version 1.12]AB  OOOCliffsofAnvilPatch.esp  [Version 1.1]AC  MMMDungeons-CliffsOfAnvil patch.esp  [Version 1.0]AD  xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp  [Version 1.0.2]AE  xulJerallGlacier.esp  [Version 1.0.0]AF  xulTheEasternPeaks.esp  [Version 1.0]++  NRB4+UL-II+LtPD Patch.esp  [Version 3.0.3]++  BetterDaedricShrinesFull-UniqueLandscapes patch.esp  [Version 2.0]B0  KragenirsDeathQuest-UniqueLandscapes Merged patch.esp  [Version 1.1]B1  bartholm.espB2  bartholm - EE patch.esp  [Version 4.2]B3  Frostcrag Village.esp  [Version 1.0.7]B4  DLCFrostcrag Reborn - Frostcrag Village Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]B5  Sutch Village.esp  [Version 1.0]++  LostCoast + SutchVillage Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]++  NRB4+RR Patch.esp  [Version 2.1]++  FCOM_UnofficialFranArmorAddon.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Natural_Vegetation_by_Max_Tael.espB6  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]B7  Better Dungeons.espB8  CUO_Dwemer.espB9  CUO_FightersGuildContracts_SAFE.espBA  CUO_MerchantsGuild_SAFE.espBB  CUO_MerchantUpdate_SAFE.espBC  CUO_NewFactionDialog_SAFE.espBD  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 5.3.2]BE  PersuasionOverhaul.esp  [Version 1.43]++  PersuasionOverhaul_OOO.esp  [Version 1.2]++  PersuasionOverhaul_MMM.esp  [Version 1.2]BF  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]++  Lynges Unlimited Death Reload Time.espC0  CLS-Craftybits.esp++  CB-X-Skills Removal.esp++  Enhanced Economy - House prices.esp  [Version 5.4.3]C1  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.2.5]++  RealisticForceMedium.esp++  RealisticMagicForceMedium.espC2  Gather Ye Rosebuds.espC3  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90b]C4  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_OOO.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_MMM.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_COBL.esp  [Version 0.90]C5  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_SigilStone.esp  [Version 0.90]C6  RshAlchemy.espC7  RshAlchemyRecipes.espC8  Lightweight Potions.esp  [Version 1.1]C9  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]CA  Deadly Reflex 6 - Timed Block and 250% damage.espCB  Bundlement.esp  [Version ision]CC  nGCD.espCD  nGCD Oghma Infinium.espCE  JCN_AV Uncap.esp  [Version 1.01]CF  Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp  [Version 4.0.2]D0  SDR Perks And Patches - Oblivion.esp  [Version 1.0.2]D1  Grandmaster of Alchemy.esp++  DMC Stylish - Specialanims.espD2  SP1stPLegs.esp++  Item interchange - Placement for FCOM.esp  [Version 0.78]++  Item interchange - Option, Ingredients in Bulk.esp  [Version 0.78]D3  Ayleid Arcane Archer.esp  [Version 2.7]D4  1em_Vilja.esp  [Version 4.04]D5  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]++  EVE_KhajiitFix.esp++  Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]D6  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVAddEnVar.esp  [Version 1.68EV]D7  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalMoreEyes.esp  [Version 10]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, TNR Merge.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]D8  bgIntegrationEV.esp  [Version 1.0b]++  Silverfish&bgIntegrationPatch.espD9  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition.esp  [Version 5.1.0]DA  Better Imperial City.esp  [Version 5.1.0]++  Better Cities Full - B&M Edition FPS Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.7]++  Better Cities - All Natural.esp  [Version 4.9.5]DB  Better Cities B&M - CUO Bravil Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.5]++  Better Cities B&M - Unique Landscape Barrowfields.esp  [Version 4.9.5]DC  Better Cities - CUO Chorrol Patch.esp  [Version 4.8.4]DD  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Chorrol Hinterland.esp  [Version 5.1.0]DE  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Cheydinhal Falls.esp  [Version 5.0.0]DF  Better Cities - CUO Leyawiin Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.0]E0  Better Cities - CUO Bruma Patch.esp  [Version 4.9.5]++  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Skingrad Outskirts.esp  [Version 5.1.0]++  Better Cities - TIE Restricted Area.esp++  Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp  [Version 5.0.0]E1  Better Imperial City - OMG.esp  [Version 4.7.0]E2  Better Cities - COBL.esp  [Version 2.1]++  Better Cities - Unique Landscape Imperial Isle.esp  [Version 4.8.1]**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicShaderLifeDetect.esp  [Version 1.68]++  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp**  FCOM_Archery.esp  [Version 0.9.9]E3  UVII.espE4  DeadlyReflex 6 - Combat Moves.esp++  Deadly Reflex 6 - HeX NifSE Patch.esp++  SM_DeadlyReflex.esp  [Version 0.90]++  NRB4 Standard Road Record.esp++  CoreRandmonClothing4Npcs.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3.2]E5  Bashed Patch, 0.espE6  DynamicLeveledLists.esp

Anybody got an idea on how to fix this? Any recommendations on my LO, or missing/superfluous patches are also most welcome.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:15 pm

Try turning off the purge cell buffers in Kuertee Auto Save and Time. Never had a problem with it myself but it may be worth a try. I did not see streamline installed but in case I missed it try without that too.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:26 pm

Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately I already tried that (I actually never had the purge option enabled). To be on the safe side, I even deactivated the mod completely, but still got a crash on a purge. And no, I don't use Streamline, so I doubt it's causing my problems either

I saw once that if you do a manual PCB, there sometimes is a lot of output to the console, so lots of stuff is happening I guess. Maybe something in there's causing the crash.
Also, I noticed that loading lots of stuff into memory increases the likelihood of a crash on the next purge. My current test area is Anvil, if I just keep going back and forth through the docks gate, it takes a while until it crashes, but if I walk around the city once and use the other gate, I can pretty much guarantee a crash.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:21 am

OK, some things stir some memories.

Look at Deadly Reflex and UV. I do recall some things about compatability and crashes a good while back. May be worth investigating.

Next, Anvil means vram at least to me. Are you using a 64 bit OS? If so do you have the 4GB patch? How about OSR? weOCPS (crash prevention system)?

Did you try a test in some other location (IC area)?

run the debug with sdt 13 and look at vram used. Maybe that will tell you something.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:58 am

UV and DR both aren't the cause for my problem, since I crash even with neither of these active.

I am using a 64-bit OS, and I have applied the 4GB patch (not that I actually notice it much, I think I saw memory usage go above 2GB exactly once, and then not very far). I'm also using OSR, tweaked slightly like I read somewhere here a while ago (heap mode 5, heap size 1024, I believe). weOCPS doesn't prevent my crash, and I've read that it can cause problems and corrupt data by preventing crashes.
IC area is equally crash happy.
With the debug text active, I can see that the "TextureMemory" is usually 700-800MB, which I believe is close to my card's limit (it has 1024MB, IIRC).

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:40 pm

UV and DR both aren't the cause for my problem, since I crash even with neither of these active.

I am using a 64-bit OS, and I have applied the 4GB patch (not that I actually notice it much, I think I saw memory usage go above 2GB exactly once, and then not very far). I'm also using OSR, tweaked slightly like I read somewhere here a while ago (heap mode 5, heap size 1024, I believe). weOCPS doesn't prevent my crash, and I've read that it can cause problems and corrupt data by preventing crashes.
IC area is equally crash happy.
With the debug text active, I can see that the "TextureMemory" is usually 700-800MB, which I believe is close to my card's limit (it has 1024MB, IIRC).

Hmm. Try removing OSR all together just to see. Settings differ from user to user and computer to computer. weOCPS, well, there are different thoughts on this. I have been using it for well over a year and never had a corrupted save. The fact that it prevents crashes is good and since it ignores problems from mods that you cannot fix anyway, makes for a less crashing game. So I think it is worth using. The problems will exist whether you use it or not. It's like taking an aspirin

I remember reading something about cell transition crashed sometimes being related to sound and magic mods (I think Supreme Magica), but I could be wrong. I am not familiar with CUO so can't say about that. How about crowded roads? Try without that.

Worst case, disable mods and turn on a few at a time. With your LO, that will be some doing though. Wish I could offer more help.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:21 pm

Tried all that, but sadly to no avail. I really appreciate the help though! Going to try deactivating some stuff, but as you mentioned, going through the list mod by mod is a rather daunting task.
If anybody else has any ideas, I'd love to hear about it.