Exactly ... the modder will just make their mod ... but someone ... something will have to make it work for the console.

Simply because the console uses less language shells between the processor and the interface. Than does a PC.

Its the whole reason a console can perform comparable with less hardware.

Yes archive assets may not need changing ... but the hub that switches them in and out will.

Don't think that's the reason. More the security. The stuff you mention is engine based.

Yes there is the security issue. But I'm saying the engine issue is a simple matter of fact.

You can't take the PC files and simply put them on your console. (hence these files need converted) A = 12.7 instead of B

Archives maybe yes ... but the assets are nothing without the software to make them work together.

Err.. do you mean the OS or kernel? In which case... no, not really. The game executable is what reads the data files and understands them. The file system on the OS or kernel just has to find and open the files, then present the contents to the executable for reading. It doesn't have to understand those contents. The file could contain text, image data, audio data... as far as the file system is concerned it's just numeric data.

And the PC understands it different than the console.

Why is this concept so hard ?

If they understood each other ... why would there be the obvious differences?

Are you talking about big-endian versus little-endian? About word length? Whether numbers are stored pure binary or as binary coded decimal?

Yes, I understand those concepts. I dealt with them quite a bit back when I was developing software for embedded systems.

Precisely what differences are there between the way a PC filing system presents data files to a game executable from the way a console filing system presents data files to a game executable that means the same data file can't be used for the same game on the two systems?

I'm very happy to learn that there is a difference, but please be specific so that I can understand you.

Your thinking only of the user interface side. A PC has many levels of language it uses ... honestly I don't know.

But here's an example of what it takes for information to travel from the user (interface) to the machine language (processor)

1-Top shell ... User input = 12ff7aDrif_Gonga

2-Next shell (gui system) 12ff7aDrif_Gonga* = 447x=<7xdf

3-Next shell (OS system) 447x=<7xdf = DDL789

4-Next shell (Driver lvl) DDL789 = x1v.58

5-Bottom shell (machine) x1v.58 = 00101000 , 01011001 ,10001001 , 00000111 etc ...

So if the PC modder inputs info on the top shell ... is stored there. But the console input starts at the 4th shell.

Isn't it obvious that the 2nd and 3rd shell translation is missing ?

In a word - no.

The sandbox that a mod plays in has nothing to do with the layers you list.

A mod just provides data (even compiled scripts are just data) that the game engine uses as it sees fit.

No mod writes directly to the file system or executes code. Or writes to the GUI or talks to the operating system.

Or any of those other things you list.

The game engine is responsible for all that, and it does a fine job, thank you.

And your saying the game engine for the PC and console are one in the same?

Lord its a miracle ... all these computing devices can talk to each other with no problems.

It must be a conspiracy of language blocking ... in an effort to charge us more for compatibility.

Of course everybody wrote the language the same for every device in history.

This generation of consoles is the closest to PCs that they've ever come. What's so hard to believe that they'd be reading game data the same if they're running the same/close to the same OS? Virtualized or not they should read the same, no?

In a word, yes. (I like short answers)

My professional estimate would be that over 99 percent of the game engine code is the same between the PS4, the XBox One, and the PC.

They run on the same architecture using the same instruction set.

Required differences would be in the area of system calls and memory utilization. GPU interface falls in the area of system calls, as does file I/O.

One of the things I hate about Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim (I think it was the same in Skyrim) is the basic crappy collision meshes... For example a barbed wire fence shouldn't stop bullets... but it does.

Now along comes this guy who gives us this...

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/59149/?

... and if you don't know what collision meshes are and why they are so important, just watch this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLfBZcy9tsQ

I hope this is sorted in the core Fallout 4... but if not, I hope someone mods it in.

Yeah and I am sure you paid gladly 1000 US$ for the graphic card you needed at these time as FO3 came out to get your perfect collission.

They get deliberatly simplified so that weak graphic cards like in the old consoles can handle them.

Sure with a modern PC a mod can update this, simply because you now have a more modern card and don't end up with 10fps because of complex collission. It's always a trade off. Gladly FO4 doesn't support the old consoles anymore. So yes collision can get more complex.

Errrmmm... nope. I never pay in dollars, here in the UK

Personally I would pay double that to play games that have no FREAKIN' INVISIBLE WALLS... God I hated setting up VATS and then finding that all my bullets impacted on an invulnerable, invisible wall...

Yeah sadly you are not the only who wanted a game and these people couldn't afford that many pounds.

This was probably just due to engine and power limitations of the previous PCs and Consoles. My experience with collision meshes is the more complex they are the harder it is for the engine, just due to all the faces it needs to figure out. I do agree that some were really overdone (rock collision meshes being square and such) but it was understandable, though annoying

As the mods show it wasn't a engine restriction it was clearly a hardware one.

Or just time restraints (collision meshes are annoying to make and take a while. Its just like making the model again, just low poly-ish). But if it was only a hardware limitation then we shouldnt have to worry. Yay for new console generation!

Actually is a collision mesh thats more like the original mesh easier to make. For simple forms it's a easy copy and upscale (fits 100% and done in to easy steps).

For a collision mesh a box, circle, cone, or any simple primitive is the easiest. The reason you can't just copy it is due to the fact that models might have small geometry changes. For example a fence post isnt perfectly flush with the slats, this adds at least 4 triangles to the geometry. This needs to be cleaned up for collisions just for performance but instead of making a fence again with flush slats and posts, a box will be used, its much quicker.

Not that I didn't know this. I simply wanted to tell you that no it isn't a convience thing. Look how Unity does it, with a simple button click (not that the result is actually convincing and really useable).

The main reason for simplified collision meshes is the hardware that it should run on as you wrote yourself.

Not all engines are the same. CryEngine didn't have the button when I used it and I had to explicity make collision meshes. When it came to houses and smaller annoying pieces, boxes were my goto. Fallout 3 might not have either. This was 7-8 years ago, and its come a long way I am sure. (Cant compare unity 5 to what would have been unity 2 back then)

I don't think the collision meshes were handled the same way, and unless you have worked with the GECK and the asset pipeline, you don't know if it was a convenience thing.

Though I do agree that the hardware should run it now much easier.

I did and still work with the mesh pipeline of FO3 & NV.

It's been proven on modded X360s that simple PC mod files work by directly copying them to folders for both FO3 and Skyrim (don't know about others). These were simple replacement type mods, but they did work with the PC files unmodified. It COULD work without ANY actual data conversion and the PC files getting loaded to the correct places with the load order getting added to the files by the interface that enables the mod installation (possibly even via a website). Now, this is a new generation of consoles, but if I'm not mistaken, the current gen hardware for both Xbox ONE and PS4 are even closer to the PC now than the previous generation so I don't seen where it's a known fact that the data files must be altered to work with the game engine.

Now that does not take out the possible idea that Bethesda may do something in terms of file conversion for security / control reasons. My fear is that if there is something like this built into the console game engine, what would keep them from putting it into the PC engine as well (but that's another discussion)? It's also not impossible that the conversion process could add console or source unique encryption that would make loading of unauthorized mods even that much more difficult to pull off (God forbid something like that shows up on the PC version).

Again, I'm just playing Devils Advocate about how far M$ would make Bethesda go to keep those unauthorized mods off consoles (and I think they would go pretty far). Also, if Bethesda goes that far to control console mods, how hard would it be for them to do so with the PC version (but I don't think they would....hopefully).