Crime

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 5:13 pm

Not if you want to RP a criminal who pimps out prosttutes. Why do you think the game has to be just about smashing baddies? If you think it'll get in the way of your game, don't do it. However, some people want to pursue criminal activities such as pimping (although prostitution was legal in Daggerfall. I guess it's not legal in Maryland Disneyland Cyrodiil.


Prostitution was a guild under the Potentates. I can't assume that it's not illegal.
User avatar
Leonie Connor
 
Posts: 3434
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:18 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 9:21 pm

Prostitution was a guild under the Potentates. I can't assume that it's not illegal.

I can't assume that it's not illegal... hmm... three double negatives there... carry the three... so it is illegal?
User avatar
Spooky Angel
 
Posts: 3500
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:41 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 5:07 pm

I can't assume that it's not illegal... hmm... three double negatives there... carry the three... so it is illegal?


Don't be an ass. You know what I mean. The guild of prosttutes was officialized along with several other guilds during the Potentates' rule. I assume it is legal because of that one line in the FG histories despite not having encountered brothels in OB.
User avatar
renee Duhamel
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:12 am

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 5:00 am

Don't be an ass. You know what I mean. The guild of prosttutes was officialized along with several other guilds during the Potentates' rule. I assume it is legal because of that one line in the FG histories despite not having encountered brothels in OB.

I wasn't being an ass, double negatives do confuse me, i was just trying to clarify your statement.
User avatar
Kelvin
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:22 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 11:08 pm

Don't be an ass. You know what I mean. The guild of prosttutes was officialized along with several other guilds during the Potentates' rule. I assume it is legal because of that one line in the FG histories despite not having encountered brothels in OB.

ok, if people are gonna flame me for being an ass hole to people, they should deffinatly get you too, cuz the dude with the watermellon was obviusly being funny.
User avatar
Richard
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:50 pm

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 12:01 am

I wasn't being an ass, double negatives do confuse me, i was just trying to clarify your statement.


The only person who should be clarifying my statement is me. It's a mistake on my part, that's all.

ok, if people are gonna flame me for being an ass hole to people, they should deffinatly get you too, cuz the dude with the watermellon was obviusly being funny.


It's not amusing.

But, that's a non-issue overall.

Some of the things in the poll really aren't crimes based on what little we know of Tamrielic laws. As I said it before, bribing is encouraged. None of the guards put a bounty on your head because you gave them 13 pieces of gold to increase their disposition. And plus the guild of prosttutes mentioned in the FG history.
User avatar
chinadoll
 
Posts: 3401
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:09 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 2:26 pm

Pimping, good fun.
User avatar
He got the
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:19 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 6:54 pm

good ideas, but wouldn't a thief or pickpocket get his hand cut off?
If it falls under "Grand theft", they might. Amputations are a part of the torture. Regular theft though doesn't need to be that harsh.

hahahaha Tax Evasion! :rofl: Please explain to me how someone in TES can accomplish tax evasion!
yes, but that asspect has never been introduced and that would make owning a home anoying if they did introduce it and you had to pay propperty tax. Would you realy want to deal with that?
First of all, why just assume that the player is the only one evading taxes? :grad:

Having crimes the player can commit isn't all we're going for here. I don't expect they will let you [censored] someone in the game, but there can be lawbooks listing the punishment for [censored] and people you will see on trial for [censored] and so on.

The way you are taxed will be figured out by which city-state you are in, but the most reasonable way is to tax property. They can ask for a sum or ask for a percentage of your earning. If you decieve them on how much you really produce on your property and they find out, they get you for tax evasion. Another way of collecting taxes is http://www.essential-architecture.com/ARCHITECT/arch-ledoux-Rotonde_de_la_Villette_Paris.jpg (like the 60 some they used to have in Paris) when you enter the city. You try to sneak in or get over the wall, they get you for tax evasion.
User avatar
Abel Vazquez
 
Posts: 3334
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:25 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 8:12 pm

The way you are taxed will be figured out by which city-state you are in, but the most reasonable way is to tax property. They can ask for a sum or ask for a percentage of your earning. If you decieve them on how much you really produce on your property and they find out, they get you for tax evasion. Another way of collecting taxes is http://www.essential-architecture.com/ARCHITECT/arch-ledoux-Rotonde_de_la_Villette_Paris.jpg (like the 60 some they used to have in Paris) when you enter the city. You try to sneak in or get over the wall, they get you for tax evasion.

Whenever I played Oblivion, I would always save every skull in every cave I ever found, and drop them into the IC shack home you can buy. I wonder how they would tax my filthy hut filled with hundreds of skulls?

EDIT: If they improve general NPC AI, specifically their morale reactions to different environments, that would potentially be a hilarious prize to leave for some wandering NPC thief who breaks in and is later seen screaming down the city streets.
User avatar
Amy Melissa
 
Posts: 3390
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:35 pm

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 2:09 am

What I mean is, some people (indeed, some people in very high government offices) seem to have this idea that if you hurt people enough, they will tell you true things. This is not the case; they tell the torturer what the torturer wants to hear, because that is what makes the torture stop.

On the one hand, if it were in, it would potentially set off the moral guardians, like with prostitution. On the other hand, unlike prostitution, I, personally, find the inclusion of such a feature morally objectionable.


Well, I'm not saying that torture is a good thing. The truth is, however, that however morally wrong it is, it was used. An in my opinion, it would add a bit to realism of the era. as far as moral objections go, I do not know whether killing is so much better than torturing. yet noone discourages you from killing about anyone in the game.

It would need a lot more complicated than that, really. We'd either need some major AI (if a lamp in your house falls over while you're away, are you accused of arson because the game connects it to items you possessed? How do we make sure the guards carrying torches at night don't accidentally ignite things as they walk around?) or a return to inactive Morrowind non-AI, to avoid simple mistakes or situations the AI isn't prepared for from destroying entire cities. We would also need not just destructible environments, but the likely more difficult rebuildable environments, or else the world would be in ruins by the time you finished the game.


If the environemnt is destructible, it sure needs to be rebuildable. I agree with this. As afar as the AI, well, the better AI, the more careful the developers have to be with it. Yes, someone with a torch might set the whole city to fire if they are not careful. Perhaps it would hlp if only player could do that or if a special action was needed. Like you do not kill anyone in the street only because you carry a weapon. You have to use it. Like that you would have to use lantersns, lamps and torces to set stuff on fire.
User avatar
Alisha Clarke
 
Posts: 3461
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:53 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 7:34 pm

http://www.freewebs.com/anticlere/lawandcourts.htm

High Crimes ? Death by various means

Treason
Conspiracy to Commit Treason

Severe Crimes ? Public and private torture

Homicide
Attempted Homicide
Assault with a deadly weapon
Abduction
Robbery
Espionage

Felonies ? Public torture and humiliation

Harboring Exiles
advltery
[censored]
Bearing False Witness
Poisoning
Burglary
Burning houses
Blackmail
Identity Theft
Piracy
Grand Theft
Racketeering

Misdemeanors ? Public humiliation

Assault
Assault and Battery
Fighting on holy ground
Aiding criminals
Manslaughter
Incendiary speeches
Negligence
Theft
Forestalling
Purpresture
Using false balances
Vagrancy
Public Nuisance in construction
Squatting
Forgery
Smuggling
Tax Evasion
Trespassing
Vandalism
Disorderly Conduct


What the f**k dude? [censored]? What kind of game are you looking for? It?s not that it?s just meaningless, but it?s really sick to implement such a thing in the game. Some of the thing listed by the threadstarter are good, but come on. [censored]! We?re talking [censored] here? Why hasn?t anyone else reacted? And to put it at tha same level as blackmailing and and advltery? Sure advltery should be a crime, but I think we whould lose this whole six thing, wether legal or not so, and leave it be. Geez...
User avatar
willow
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:43 pm

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 12:57 am

good ideas, but wouldn't a thief or pickpocket get his hand cut off?


That would be a little game breaking though, so something less permanent would be needed.

Other than that, I think some of those things that Shades listed would simply not be feasible to implement, and having to pay taxes in the game would really detract from the gameplay. And [censored] really isn't needed as an action the player can get involved in at all, references to it for the sake of atmosphere or plot would be alright, but letting the player do it is not needed at all, and would probably just set the people who are always complaining about content which they consider offensive in video games off like we've never seen before, just imagine how Mass Effect was criticized, wrongfully, of being a "[censored] simulator", and imagine how people would react if they found out the Elder Scrolls V DID, in fact, have [censored], if it were done with any degree of explicitness, it would probably get an instant AO, at least.

As for things in the poll, bribe is already present in both Morrowind and Oblivion, but it is just a way to increase people's disposition and was not seen as a crime in the game.

Levitation should return, but by no means should it be a crime unless you use it for illegal actions, such as breaking into homes through entrances inaccessible without it.

As to the other crimes listed, I doubt Bethesda would do arson, for the simple fact that it would involve permanent changes to the game's landscape, I could only see it being done as part of quests, the same goes for vandalism, and I really can't see pimping adding much to the game, otherwise though, the crime's listed in the poll seem like good ideas, if they are done in a way that enhances the game.

As to actions like torture being morally objectionable, one must remember, we ARE talking about crime here, it doesn't have to be right, I am not going to argue that all crime must necessarily be wrong (a rebellion against an oppressive government, for example, is definately not legal, but I am sure the rebels would tell you they are doing the right thing, and if the rebellion was a success, there is a good chance history would tell the same.) but still, arguing against including a crime simply because doing so in real life is wrong by most modern moral standards does not seem to make much sense to me, and no matter how you would compare torture to murder, both are still acts that widely accepted modern morals would object to, objecting against the portrayal of one in the game simply because it is wrong while accepting the other seems to me to involve a hint of hypocrisy. Indeed, while by modern standards, torture is considered wrong, that does not change the fact that it has happened in the past, Morrowind had slavery, and it was perfectly legal in that game, even though modern developed countries would not allow it, it had murder, even though it is quite illegal in the real world as well as in Tamriel, and many games portray acts such as terrorism, even though I am sure no one here is going to claim that terrorism is right, so why not torture?
User avatar
Ernesto Salinas
 
Posts: 3399
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:19 pm

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 1:04 am

I voted for:

Bribery
Extortion
Levitation
Smuggling
Treason
Vandalism

I think that torture should be replaced with mugging. <_<
User avatar
Javier Borjas
 
Posts: 3392
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:34 pm

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 3:46 am

What the f**k dude? [censored]? What kind of game are you looking for? It?s not that it?s just meaningless, but it?s really sick to implement such a thing in the game. Some of the thing listed by the threadstarter are good, but come on. [censored]! We?re talking [censored] here? Why hasn?t anyone else reacted? And to put it at tha same level as blackmailing and and advltery? Sure advltery should be a crime, but I think we whould lose this whole six thing, wether legal or not so, and leave it be. Geez...
Read this below.

Having crimes the player can commit isn't all we're going for here. I don't expect they will let you [censored] someone in the game, but there can be lawbooks listing the punishment for [censored] and people you will see on trial for [censored] and so on.

User avatar
CSar L
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:36 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 3:51 pm

I think every legitimate crime thinkable by Bethesda should be included in TESV. That would make the game even more realistic and in-depth.

I don't do crimes, but I might start.

User avatar
sarah
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:53 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 1:48 pm

all of them
User avatar
Vahpie
 
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:07 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 9:06 pm

I'm sure many of you have commit theft, murder, and trespassing in your TES careers. What other criminal activities would you like to pursue in TES5?

Besides being arrested by stealing a potatoe, I should say lessen the effect.
User avatar
Kyra
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:24 am

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 4:52 am

Arson, Vandalism, Murder, Thieft, Extortion, Torture, Smuggling, Tax Evasion, Trespassing, Robbery.

Price(jail time, money fine, etc) for the crime depends on the crime. Fame and Infame system like in Oblivion.
User avatar
Britta Gronkowski
 
Posts: 3475
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:14 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 7:57 pm

Fame and Infame system like in Oblivion.

But please please please let you not gain 1 infamy for "Being evil" or "doing an evil quest", rather taking a path that ended with an innocent's death, or taking a path that the people involved with the quest didn't like.

As for crime: basically what has been said already.
User avatar
Phillip Brunyee
 
Posts: 3510
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:43 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 6:48 pm

But please please please let you not gain 1 infamy for "Being evil" or "doing an evil quest", rather taking a path that ended with an innocent's death, or taking a path that the people involved with the quest didn't like.

As for crime: basically what has been said already.

Or lets not have an evil good system, I rather liked mass effect's paragon and renegade system. If there was some way for TES to jump off that idea it would be great, and as for the oblivion system...

how the hell do people hate me for assassinating people when no one ever witnessed me commit a crime, damn its as bad as the physic guards in my opinion.
User avatar
james kite
 
Posts: 3460
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:52 am

Post » Mon May 02, 2011 12:55 am

I normally don't transgress, but I chose arson because it would be fun to be able to set fire to things (not necessarily houses or as a criminal act). Just last night I was prowling around the starter dungeon with a lit torch and came to the place where the two goblins shoot arrows against the stacked wood. I thought, "Too bad I can't set fire to the logs and then kick them down." Roast goblin, anyone?
User avatar
Ross Thomas
 
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:06 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 12:47 pm

It looks to me like some of the posters in this thread are looking not for TES5, but for GTA: Tamriel.


Very true I wonder if they made a fantasy GTA game would it be successful.

I voted for extortion but smuggling and vandalism should be in the TES V along with real organized crime let's forget about Robin Hood for just one game and see how it goes.
User avatar
Amy Smith
 
Posts: 3339
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:04 pm

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 3:11 pm

That's not entirely true - the focus of role-playing is choice and choices that affect the world, and being able to be a believable character through those choices - more types of crime, more choices and more world-affecting choices, I say. Also, make it so you actually have to sit through jailtime, that you have a trial, and that you can be arrested because they suspect you're up to something.

Like Daggerfall (and maybe include an easter egg where the guards yell "Halt! Halt! Halt!")
User avatar
jessica breen
 
Posts: 3524
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:04 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 11:17 pm

Arson and Torture.
User avatar
teeny
 
Posts: 3423
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:51 am

Post » Sun May 01, 2011 7:54 pm

[quote name='Tarvok Spellbinder' date='Aug 17 2008, 04:53 PM' post='12693714']
What I mean is, some people (indeed, some people in very high government offices) seem to have this idea that if you hurt people enough, they will tell you true things. This is not the case; they tell the torturer what the torturer wants to hear, because that is what makes the torture stop.


Your argument is a logical fallacy. You say that the tortured tells the torturer what they want to hear...so then what if what the torturer wants to hear is the truth?!? Then will the victim tell them what they want to hear (i.e. the truth). Yes of course
Thus, torture is of course often effective, thats why people have done it throughout time. The problem is not that it is ineffective, the problem is that it is evil.
User avatar
Ian White
 
Posts: 3476
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:08 pm

PreviousNext

Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion