There are four classes with 3 skill lines each. What if at character creation, when a player chooses the class which determines their skill lines, players are given the option remain a Pure Class or sacrifice 1 of their three skill lines in favor of a skill line from a different class?

The 4 classes are already quite diverse and do not fall into stereotypical roles that are ubiquitous in many rpgs. With two skills set by your class, 4 classes becomes 4 classes with 40 (4*10) total starting variants, for those that choose not to remain pure With 2/3 of your base character decided by your class, Zenimax can afford an even greater degree of freedom, above the already incredible level that is offered, and each class has the majority of their basic skills in common with their fellow class members. (No classes would yield 1,320 (12*11*10) starting variants. )

There is even the precedent, though potentially extremen in an MMO, of using a bonus/penalty: Major/Minor skills in previous Elder Scrolls games (Morrowing & Oblivion). Such could be used if there were a reason to want to limit the number of people that selected this option. Ex: 5% Bonus to class skill-lines within Pure Class, ect.

Examples:

Dunmer Nightblade-

Worships Azura and wishes to embody Dusk and Dawn;

Dawn's Wrath, Shadow, and Assassination.

Argonian Nightblade-

Worships Sithis: Die silently and embrace the void:

Shadow, Siphon, and Dark Magic.

Redguard Templar- Fighter's Guild

Only those that can destroy the daedra should be allowed to traffic with them.

Aedric Spear, Dawn's Wrath, and Daedric Summoning

Altmer Dragonknight-

I am chaos controlled:

Ardent Flame, Earthen Heart, and Storm Calling.

Imperial Sorcerer-

A high priest that escaped Cyrodil's temple:

Daedric Summoning, Storm Calling, and Restoring Light.

umm you do realize that you can cross class right? this was already stated by the devs that you could pick up different lines from different classes

Got that in writing? honestly that would make for some over the top builds and make balancing a nightmare

There is NO cross classing. All classes can learn all skill lines except for other classes.

But on topic: may as well get rid of the lines going down this route.

I would greatly appreciate a source. I saw an undated quote as to why they are Not allowing a classless system, but I have yet to hear that it is allowed. Looking at the permutations, 1,320 character types Before considering armor and weapons would be extreme (extremely open/cool, and extremenly difficult to balance).

Still, in a game that espoused freedom (I don't know why my $2 vocabulary has been suddenly activated lol), the freedom to be powerful or weak is legitimate, within reason. *assuming it doesn't disrupt other players.

It is not possible to multi class

I like it. I can't imagine it being too overpowered if limited to 1 class skill exchange. Doing so at character creation would be ideal, except....you don't get to see the details about each class' skills and the powers associated with each skill in-game(at least not in the beta). If you could see the whole skill line before having to choose, that would be the best way. Same with racials, etc.

It would be just fine to do it like Oblivion did and make me stare intently at my game manual for an hour deciding which skills were best for my character while still in CC.

This would be an improvement over what they currently have. Personally, I'd prefer having no classes at all.

-Travail.

I would also like no classes. I've noticed that I want a mishmash of several class skills for my play style.

Hehe, I totally sat there agonzing over Oblivion's manual too lol

I'm not in beta, so hearing that makes a lot of sense. Choosing blind would be...interesting lol

I think even a quick description of the skill lines would make it relatively easy, except for the hardcoe optimizers

its been in writing for a long time lol the basis of this mmo is you can take from every class that is currently in MMO's and take a little bit from each and adapt it to your particular playstyle

Currently, if you choose one class, you are forever locked out of accessing the 9 skill trees available to the other 3 classes.

All other skills lines are available to each and every character, but class skill lines are only available to your character if you picked that class during character creation.

-Travail.

No, it has not been in writing. You cannot take anything from other classes.

Trust me that will be so unbalanced. If they would even do such a thing they would have to revamp the class skill lines, basically making them more generic and interchangable. Else it would be too OP to have access to another classes skill tree.

Well... something something NDA.

All I will say is that I see nothing to suggest that any of the class skill trees would become unbalanced if they were paired with a class skill tree from a different class.

-Travail.

You sure you took a good look at all the morphs?

I see, he must be trolling... *edit (about the cross class already existing)

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I feel pretty strongly about the idea for limited cross class skills. I have Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, and my favorite skills were Mindcontrol, Stealth, Restoration, Paralyiss, and Health absorption.

Each game has radically dealth with each skill set/ (school of magic), so I have had to adapt; how I remember the spear lol. The new possibilities have always been interesting. Skyrim blatantly removed a few of my favorites, but added plenty of new things to try.

It just so happens that my favorite skills are torn between a Nightblade and Sorceror. In TESO, I could be stealthy with Medium Armor, maybe a little draining with a restoration staff. I could use a destruction staff instead of be a sorcerer... even with 1 cross class skill, I would be missing out on a skill or two, but that isn't so bad. No cross class and I'm really stuck.

It's the main reason I haven't preordered the game yet. I see lot's of great options, but my favorite combo is split between two classes.

i am against being able to switch skill lines. i like the class system as is and if anything would prefer a couple more classes

I'm not in beta, but if they did the cross class in this fashion, there would be 40 ways to start. There are morphs for all of the active skills... so I am lead to believe/assume. The probability of there being a large number or even decent number of overpowered combinations couldn't be too high. The class skill lines are not all focused on one archtype, so no combination should be especially more powerful than any other, no?

Because they are in beta, this option could be tested out!

Powerful combinations could occur by random chance, but just how much More powerful could they be than other combinations? Losing a skill line makes those combinations harder to achieve, as well, right?

Yes, of course. I honestly don't see what would be game-breaking. Some of the best combos in the game are already available to players. Let's take, for example, the combination of fire staff with the Dragonknight's fire-based abilities (something the devs have already talked about publicly, so nothing NDA breaking here.)

Here, we have multiple fire-enhancing traits stacking on top of each other, more than what would be available to any of the other three classes. I don't see any combination of class skill lines which would be objectively more powerful than a combination such as this one, which is currently possible in the game. The same could be said of a Sorcerer's lightning abilities coupled with a lightning staff (a combination that was also talked about by the developers, in the same video as the one featuring the Dragonknight.) Certainly, there would be powerful combinations, but nothing objectively "overpowered" compared to what our characters will already be capable of.

-Travail.

Assume all you want. But class skills are separated for a reason. Sure not all combinations are op. But if you think about it, through and through, Im sure there will be devastating combos. Sure it can be balanced, but this system works and is flexible enough for most. No real reason for zos to go and change this.
You areal entitled to your opinions and assumptions, but my vote remains the same and I dont feel like debating this with nda up.

the class system is fine as is. its needs no changes

I don't feel good about this idea...

I trust the devs have made the classes for a reason, and there are too many pitfalls of overpoweredness. Not that I know anything about anything (admittedly) but I could imagine a build with nightblade siphon and templar heals to be virtually unkillable. Just an example...

It is a pity that the NDA makes this more difficult to discuss, but it is what it is. Though I would not strictly try and change your view, I think discussing this isn't pointless (everyone is still polite) .With what is available, it doesn't seem as though the classes are balanced in set ways. Meaning that if the skills had been rearranged, I don't think it would make a large difference.

Each class has stuns, snares, damage reduction.

Illusion is fairly restricted to Nightblades, and there is no Illusion staff.

Restoration (Skyrim style) is in the Templar(restricted) or Staff(everyone).

Fire -Staff or Dragon Knight

Conjuration Sorcerer (Nightblade?) Mages Guild

The schools are mostly spread out without being too restricted to one class. Some things are pretty new, like Templar and Dragon Knight abilities.

Each skill line is fairly different, even within one class, that is why I support the idea of limited mixing.

Yay, a hypothetical! I see what you mean. As it stands, a Nightblade could focus on Siphoning, heavy armor, and a restoration staff. Pretty hard to kill, right? Most likely, yeah.

Conversely, what are the character's weaknesses? Max Magicka is a major constraint; lots of magicka to heal and drain oponents, or lot's of health to actually have that Could be refilled? The player must choose. What about damage output? Spending all of that effort/skill points into staying alive means fewer points for actually killing oponents.

In single player, I was usually hard to kill, because of my tactics, but I was fragile if I did get hit; additionally, I couldn't easily kill my opponents outright.

Now, under my proposal, if said character wanted Restorative Light, they would have to lose one skill line. So:no Assassination or no Shadow. Heal from the shadows, or outright murder an opponent face to face. They still need enough Magicka to actually cast offensive and healing abilities.

That character might be hard to kill, but it would have a harder time killing others too