Spears must be balanced not cuted out, in morrowind spears have long reach and and fast attack pushing back enemies to frequently, but oblivion also has frequently staggering in melee combat, does removing of spears from oblivion fix it, no it doesn't.
But thats was fixed by mods like
Doc Block Recoil Stagger
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35933

Duke Patricks - Everyone Or Just Vampires Now Bob And Weave
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15103
IMHO how to balance spears
Spears fear of shields and two handed swords, its historical documented, Zweih?nder even created for destroy pike and spears, thats not just some big sword, its instrument of taking tactical advantages in combat.
So we can block attack with shield or strike with zweih?nder and damage spear when enemy try parry, spears can be dodged by nimble enemies
Spears moderately fast (slower then short swords) have long reach and awesome pierce strike but slashing attack is not potent like blade has, they are lighter then two handed swords and hammers but have similar reach, they can be cost less then swords, and much less durable.
Spear was one weapons thats early humanity create, spear symbolic savage hunters how about Hircine without his hunter spear?
Spears was one of mass produced weapons in medieval since creating an spear was much less time-consuming exercise then an sword, they have awesome tactical characteristic like armor piercing and long reach, Pikeman was outdated only when firearm become powerful enough to replace spears.

About crossbows ok, Skyrim is too low tech for them, but how about other marksman weapons, how about throwing weapons?
Again in Oblivion developers leave only bows they say it was hard to make all other marksman weapon, but did they see this mod for oblivion?
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7822
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzOsBAPoWQE
Thats mod add throwing stars in 6 November 2006 via scripts
Todays Unnecessary Violence and Deadly Reflex make it even better, is thats hard to make more then only bows with total access to engine?
Dark Brotherhood Assassins and Dunmer Morag Tong assassins and other nimble characters can use darts, throwing stars and throwing dagger and knifes, nords, orsimer ant other strong characters can use throwing hammers and axes even throwing spears and javelins, Giants can thrown stones.

Crossbows are unusable , too slow and because of view distance they cannot hit farther than bows , i am a big mount & blade fan and never used them even there .
Spears in Morrowind used to be cool , specially because the commanding skill was endurance

I agree the whole spears are must thing is stupid, BUT spears were REALLY common weapons of a time becose they were easy- and cheap to make and they werent something you use in special occasion, quite the contrary


Vikings most used weapon was infact spear....only the chief and other more important persons got swords and chain mail...

Spears should have been in the game because fans wanted them.

It seems asinine that they would add a traditional weapon to the game world (THE SPEAR OF BITTER MERCY?!?), then remove it, then after a huge outcry the first time, don't bother to implement it into the next game. They're obviously met with the same reaction with Skyrim because people wanted them in Oblivion.

If an Elder Scrolls 6 comes out, and Spears are not included, fans will be upset again because Bethesda once again ignored their requests. What kind of company designs games that don't fulfil their fan's/consumer's desire?

And that goes to show how deep some peoples selfishness goes. They think just because they want it they should get it. You want them because they are overpowered simple as that. For those that want them because they like the look or feel of spears, you have them back in Skyrim as polearms which have the same feel and look even better than spears except they swing instead of stab. BGS gave you what you wanted while balancing them yet people still aren't happy with that and to those people I say, get over yourself and open your eyes.



That's because smelting that much metal was hard for vikings. Once swords and other weapons became common place, spears were almost completely phased out, mainly being used for perimeter defense in a military unit. Spears were mostly replaced with swords and other polearms like halberds and bardiches.

polearms > spears

This. They do everything a spear does and better. Also they look better!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HagCuGXJgUs

you need both arms to reload a crosbow, in real history the bow disapeared because the crossbow, it wasn't because crossbow where a better weapon instead was because any idiot could use it.

i do preffer 1000 thousand times the long-bow

Perhaps, but considering how vocal fans were of the materials missing the first time, it seems obvious that the company (that is designing a game to please fans of their original work, and attract an even larger demographic this time) should aim to implement the criticisms that the fans complained about in their previous games. What would have happened if they had put spears in? A lot of people would have said "Yay, finally" and forgiven the mistake of the omission the first time and been even more excited for the game. By doing what they've done (leaving them out another time), it's only furthering the disappointment and it just reflects that they don't really take notice of their fanbase.

Your banol explanation of how I only want spears in because 'they are overpowered' is absolutely untrue. I want spears in because I have a weapon fetish for Spears that deal lightning damage.

:hubbahubba:

You know, I actually wouldn't care if they completely nerf spear damage and make it so that they never stagger anyone. I just want a melee weapon to use that's not a stupid sword, axe, or mace! As long as the weapon looked cool and had good animations, I would make do with nerfed damage. I would make do with them being completly underpowered. And I would love it. Because I love spears, and not because they're overpowered. So will people please freaking stop saying that people only liked spears because they were freaking "overpowered"? Please, it only makes you sound like a [censored].bag. That is all.

Oh, and thank you Orzorn for being a voice of reason.

And honestly, would you rather fight a huge dragon with a 2.5 foot sword, or a 6.5 foot spear? I'd take that 4 extra feet.

Maybe they are not putting in spears because of the loud, belligerent threads from a small minority of players. If the threads were more productive and less insulting/hostile BGS might actually pay attention to them. Then again, if the developers think there are no advantages, or too many disadvantages, for a character using a spear it will be left out.

I'd take the Dragon Shouts. :toughninja:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . :blink:

Okay, that works too. But, still, 4 extra feet between me and a dragon sounds a heck of alot better than having to get in arm's reach of it. :rock:

So.. You're just pretending that the Rhodoks don't exist?


Your posts always make me chuckle, such a superiority complex.

don't know if you noticed, the Rhodoks are pretty much the weakest opponents when you face them in the battlefield - until they bring out their crossbows, which can easily burn you out during a siege. Their spearman infantry totally svck

Spear is a very board term, in most cases, a spear is either designed to be thrown or used for melee combat; for close range spears, they were typically meant to both slash and stab the enemy.



A spear is a polearm, a polearm may not be a spear. Just like how a halberd is a polearm, but a polearm may not be a halberd.

ha i played as rhodok since forever and i can tell that a spear and a crossbow can really tear appart even the largest armies if you know how to command the entire troops. and besides thats what makes rhodoks the best for castle defend. they use a nice wall of spears at the ladders while the crossbowmen spread death to the invaders.

He very good in roleplay of an Ayleid Elf they was even more arrogant then they Altmers cousins, thats good at my sight, roleplaying always good.

Wouldn't that be faulty logic, seeing as everyone was happy and there were no complaints about Spears in Morrowind before they were omitted from Oblivion? Before this festering complaint was created?

I thought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf4IoxEUmHM&feature=related was really well done. It starts out with spears and then progresses to swords. It sort of shows how spears can be used in a battle if done well.

What do you think?

there is no way the devs can programe that.

that fight is epic, and thats the way a good spear must be used, until devs can′t reach that level of realism i dont want spears in elder scrolls

here is a better quality video of that fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Glly5JA5h0&feature=related

If you used a spear against swords, axes, maces and daggers in reality (and yes a fantasy that has similar rules of physicality) you will lose. This is why spears were phased out and replaced by polearms, which you have in Skyrim, no one should be complaining because you got your "spears" back but they are also balanced. Rejoice instead of complain. If I was BGS I would be removing polearms from the game at this very moment because people still complain after they gave you what you wanted minus the stabbing. Just be happy that BGS didn't ban spear-like weapons from the game forever from all the flaming you have done to them after they have given you 4 amazing RPGs and the two spinoff games.

Man oh man. Actually, spears were phased out in favor of longer spears, called pikes. If you use a sword, axe, mace, or dagger against a pike, you will lose. In fact, there is a famous style of troop formation called "pike and shot," which was essentially just a bunch of spearman, and a couple guys with muskets. Eventually, the guns evolved enough to entirely replace the pike. So in reality, guns were the only weapon that could make a spear obsolete.

I admit, the pike was purely a formation weapon, in one on one combat, it's useless because it's too heavy to move. But as soon as you cut the length down to a standard 8 foot spear, you get all the same advantages you normally would against shorter weapons. Yes, you can still get within the striking distance, and yes, they can break. But most spearman had a second hand weapon, why wouldn't you?

Also, unless the polearms have perks that are separate from the two handed axe skill, it's just an aesthetic choice, and one that has no influence on the depth of the game. And if Bethesda begins a policy of ignoring content to spite fans of the series, just because they've asked for something REASONABLE (a common medieval weapon in a game where 1/3 of the content is based on medieval weapons? The audacity!) I don't see them lasting long. Eventually they'd alienate even the new fans, once they start asking to ride dragons while dual wielding claymores, or whatever else the kindergarten demographic favors instead of depth, complexity, and rationality.

No, only stab. They aren't a broad term, they are actually a division within the polearm family.



This I am aware. I have plenty of times said "Other polearms" so people can't do this and the one damn time I stop saying "other polearms" I get the "your wrong lololololol" statement....