Crossbows and Spears

Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:54 am

What is it with you people with freaking spears and freaking crossbows(I like crossbows though :whisper:)? :confused:
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:15 pm

Also, unless the polearms have perks that are separate from the two handed axe skill, it's just an aesthetic choice, and one that has no influence on the depth of the game.


Why wouldn't there be perks that are specific to polearms? It is it's own unique weapon, there is no reason to think that it would be bound to two handed axe perks.
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leigh stewart
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:12 am

Why wouldn't there be perks that are specific to polearms? It is it's own unique weapon, there is no reason to think that it would be bound to two handed axe perks.


I'd agree, but we can't know for sure until we play it.
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ImmaTakeYour
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:38 am

When Todd said there's no spears, people freak out. Sometimes it's amusing to see the reacting being so dramatic and makes me wonder why is spear so good and beloved? In morrowind, spears are very popular because it's simply easy to use. All you do is keep facing the enemy and poke, and he'll never be able to get close to you, because every time you poke he's pushed back. This is not balanced."


Spears are very balanced I htink. Unless you play Easy Mode (Always Use Best Attack) You have to restrict yourself to a very specific form of fighting. if you do anything BUT Thrust/Stab, you do virtually no damage.so two of its attacks are horrible, one is good, and its the most difficult one to use right that is very good. Not to mention that all the spears are VASTLY weaker than swords. The Spear of Bitter Mercy, Illkurok, Greed and Stormforge, the most powerful spears -- tend to pale in comparison to the more powerful artifacts from other schools. Not to mention that it negated shield use.

And unlike all other weapons, these can do a single point of damage.

As far as crossbows go, while they may add good elements, heres the problem: What will Crossbows do that will make them unique? And how will they do that, without making themselves either pointlessly weak, or so powerful that Bows become weak? Throwing knives are much simpler -- theyd be useless unless they could move at the same rate as arrows. If they could move at that rate, their reduced weight would make them far better than any bow.
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chinadoll
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Spears are very balanced I htink. Unless you play Easy Mode (Always Use Best Attack) You have to restrict yourself to a very specific form of fighting. if you do anything BUT Thrust/Stab, you do virtually no damage.so two of its attacks are horrible, one is good, and its the most difficult one to use right that is very good. Not to mention that all the spears are VASTLY weaker than swords. The Spear of Bitter Mercy, Illkurok, Greed and Stormforge, the most powerful spears -- tend to pale in comparison to the more powerful artifacts from other schools. Not to mention that it negated shield use.


This guy has it figured out.
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DAVId MArtInez
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:15 pm

This guy has it figured out.


So says the Spear guy <_< I'm surprised your name isn't Broken-Spear instead.
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mollypop
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:33 pm

Probably the biggest critique I have about there being no spears is that it is a blatant disregard for the community's overall wishes. There was such an uproar over them being missing in Oblivion that it would seem to go without saying that not bringing them back would be fallacy. It makes me a lot more skeptical of Bethesda's decision making as a whole for Skyrim if they ignored such a basic issue

A big problem I have is the fact that earlier games and Tamriel as a whole had spears at one point, and then some day they just disappeared. If Tamriel never had them at all then I wouldn't be as insistent on them returning. Even some literature in Oblivion had spears in them, despite them being absent...its very odd, additionally because it is the oldest weapon in the human arsenal.

As for spears perhaps not being done as thoroughly as axes, maces, and swords...to me that is a bunch of crud. Who really needs finishing moves for each weapon? I would much rather have the spear be a simple but effective secondary weapon. By this I mean that it might not have the cool animations and be primarily a thrusting weapon, but you could have perks that give your spear specializations. For example, make a perk for spears doing severe damage against wild animals (thus a hunter can use it in that situation) or perhaps a perk for it being effective against dragons. This way no one needs to specialize in spears but they would still be useful in situations if you chose the perks for them.
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maria Dwyer
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:35 pm

In Two worlds 2 poland devs had'nt problem with spears/halberds!
i say more: halberds are most interesting, funny and popular weapon - just look to users in multiplayer!
with halberds you can make very good combos against group of enemies!
so, Bethesda must just want to...

crossbow used in many games also -nothing difficult
this is just sniper rifle of middle age - what's problem?
so, Bethesda must just want to...
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Hella Beast
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:16 am

Whilst I have some sympathy for Beth not including spears in their new mêlée combat system, why can't they at least include them as 'one-shot javelin' type weapons? Hunting wild animals across the tundra of Skyrim without the ability to 'skewer' them with a well placed spear throw just seems a dreadful missed opportunity.

If spears aren't going to be included in the 'classic sense' (whatever the hell that means?!) at least let us have them as ranged weapons with which to impale our prey!!!
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Svenja Hedrich
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:08 am

spears are very popular because it's simply easy to use. All you do is keep facing the enemy and poke, and he'll never be able to get close to you, because every time you poke he's pushed back.


? enemies were not pushed back when struck in MW. unless you were using a mod.
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P PoLlo
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:07 am

And that's why the game will be good to buy for the pc.. Anything the developers can't figure out how to do or don't have the time or money or know how... will get modded into the game. If there aren't any spears in the vanilla.. there will be in a month or two of game release.
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Tessa Mullins
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:25 am

Was there any successful spear mods for Oblivion? I can't recall any.
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David John Hunter
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:17 pm

When Todd said there's no spears, people freak out. Sometimes it's amusing to see the reacting being so dramatic and makes me wonder why is spear so good and beloved? In morrowind, spears are very popular because it's simply easy to use. All you do is keep facing the enemy and poke, and he'll never be able to get close to you, because every time you poke he's pushed back. This is not balanced. In real life, when you use a spear to poke the enemy, the enemy can easily parry it out of his way and get close to you while you have nothing to protect yourself. Therefore, spears are either used for special occasions (against cavalry or in a formation), or if used as a personal weapon, the length is greatly reduced to the point that it's almost a claymore (this is configuration is often used in Chinese martial arts), to gain more versatility.

However in TES games today, weapon clipping hasn't evolved to the point where spear's disadvantage can be represented in the game, it's difficult to balance the spears, and if attempt to balance it in some way, it'll either come out as a super weapon again, or utterly useless. That's apparently not what the devs want to see.

About crossbows, I personally like crossbows because it enhances class balance (well, I know there's no defined classes, but there's still classes otherwise every character will be the same). Why? because crossbows are in fact "bows and arrows for dummies". If you are a character dedicated to sword and block, what happens when you want to do ranged attack, such as hunting? It would be too stupid to run around chasing a deer with a sword to hunt for venison, it's just not realistic. What can you do? You should be able to pick up a crossbow which is supposed to require less marksman skill (which, in real life, is true), and shoot the deer. Of course, as a penalty, you cannot reload it in a short time, so you probably cannot use it effectively in combat, or you need to switch weapon as soon as you have taken a shot. this is also true in real life combat, such as cavalry sometimes carry a one-shot crossbow, do a quick ranged attack before engaging in close range. Heck, even the ancient Roman legionaries carry a throwing spear and cast it before melee fights. So I don't think crossbow is useless.

RIGHT... go play DEMONS SOULS with a spear and get back to me buddy.... Morrowind is a good game, but noones changed it's diaper in a long time(old joke). crossbows are sixy as hell. "ranged combat for dummies" perfect description sir. making the reload extremely impractical for anything other than a quick ambush is a reasonable way to balance it. throwing spears are the next best thing. they can be goverend by strength. the stronger you are the farther you throw them+ more damage. back to crossbows. the stronger a crossbow is, the longer it will take to load bolts.
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Flutterby
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:20 pm

You know, I actually wouldn't care if they completely nerf spear damage and make it so that they never stagger anyone. I just want a melee weapon to use that's not a stupid sword, axe, or mace! As long as the weapon looked cool and had good animations, I would make do with nerfed damage. I would make do with them being completly underpowered. And I would love it. Because I love spears, and not because they're overpowered. So will people please freaking stop saying that people only liked spears because they were freaking "overpowered"? Please, it only makes you sound like a [censored].bag. That is all.

This guy.. DEMONS SOULS, DEADLIEST WARRIOR(for gods sake) and FONV (i'm not talking about throwing spears) managed to design balanced spears into their games. Please stop using Morrowind as an example of a game with !!!SPEARS GONE WRONG!!! Morrowind was a good game, but noone has changed its diaper in a long time. (old joke...morrowind is old)
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J.P loves
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:38 pm

Was there any successful spear mods for Oblivion? I can't recall any.



None that were particularly great. Animations were one of the more difficult things to mod in Oblivion. I think eventually some tolerable spear mods came out for Oblivion, but that was at least 2 years after release. So don't get too optimistic about modders putting them in quickly. Crossbows on the other hand never really were modded right.
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Talitha Kukk
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:34 pm

Was there any successful spear mods for Oblivion? I can't recall any.

Well here is some
Animation most hard thing to mod
CCAO - Cotyounoyume Combat Animation Overhaul
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=36261
This awesome mod allow use different custom animation sets for weapons even NPC can use it (fixing Oblivion problem of weapon class animations), include spears animation also.
KSTN Spear Stance 1H
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27865
This mod allow use Spear&Shield style, completely new custom animation
Unnecessary Violence
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24936
This great mod have many options and greatly expand combat system feature Throwing Spears, but also allow to thrown any other weapons as well, many parameters included in throwing mechanic its not just an button for throwing but a true skill from RPG.
Spears of Cyrodiil
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12611
This mod created by autor of Deadly Reflex utilize some vanila staff animations for spear combat
Spear of Bitter Mercy OBSE
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7733
This mod also do this, but also return ancient TES artifact.

Mesh model for weapon also need, so there mod thats add spear weapons to game without animation mods from above they will work like sword.
Armamentarium Complete 1-35
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18417
Awesome mod Trollf and Team Arma expand weapon variety greatly, add spears and polearms also
Artifacts 1-1
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25309
Trollf Corepc TeamArma add even more variation
HelBornesSpearSet10
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32363
Awesome work of Hel Borne and Loth DeBonneville
Helbornes Chitin Armor and Weapons
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30541
This awesome mod by Hel Borne recreate Chitin armors and weapons from morrowind, include chitin spear.
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Dustin Brown
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:52 am

Eh, I don't understand why people are so butthurt that they're not in, but I alsodon't get why they can't easily be put in when they were fine in New Vegas :s Ah well
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matt white
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:14 am

My favorite part of the day... is coming in and watching people fight over spears and crossbows. I mean, really! It's a lot like watching two little kids pushing and shoving each other to decide who gets to use the toilet first.

What does it matter if you have an opinion one way or the other? Who really cares?

The only people whose opinions ANYONE here has to sway, are the people at Bethesda... and it's fairly obvious that they're not listening to those of us who are against the removal of superfluous skills and items. Sure, it may seem like fairly basic logic to us that you don't cut off the nose to spite the face... but apparently not everyone agrees that there is a simple way to fix the problems with balancing.

Granted, I don't trust most people's mental ability to change a spark plug... so I'm not a very fair judge in these regards... but still.


It's funny, though.

We want spears!

No! Spears svck!

Blah blah blah! No! Blah blah blah blah blah!


It's like children. Folks don't even care what they're fighting for half the time... they just need something to argue about.

Sure? Why not spears?! Spears seem like they could be made out to be bad, right? Yeah... sure! I could argue -against- spears!

Hrrm... I need something to bicker about today! I know! I want spears back in The Elder Scrolls!


Ah well.

For the record. I like spears. I like crossbows. I like regular bows. I also like swords, shields, and maces, and axes.

I like it all. And spears or not... I'll be just fine... but it seems really, really stupid to not have them. Especially since it's not like they DON'T EXIST! You actually have to WORK at creating a medieval setting without crossbows and spears. They're as basic as the [censored] wooden club.

But... I can't be bothered to care.

I'll be far more concerned with relevant things... like designing my beard.
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Stat Wrecker
 
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Post » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:12 pm

Long life to Crossbows and Spears.
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GabiiE Liiziiouz
 
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