In Oblivion, and Morrowind to a weaker extent, Sneak mod made you crouch.
It seems in Skyrim that entering http://www.elderscrollv.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Skyrim-stealth.png produces the same effect as Oblivion.

My issue with this? Your hitbox stays the same. If there's some sort of area that you were too tall to enter, but small enough to enter in sneak mode, you still couldn't


Did the hitbox remaining the same annoy you in Oblivion?
Do you think sneak mode should double as a crouching feature?

Please feel free to elaborate on your vote.

I never noticed that. It didn't annoy me, but I suppose it should allow you to duck under tight spaces.

Personally I think it should lead to more interesting level design.
Such as better hidden passageways in castles and what not.

It didn't annoy me, but it would be nice if they could add alternative routes for stealthy characters.

Of course, what would be really nice would be if they could introduce climbing too. But I fear it isn't going to be . Having better stealth was raised a few time during Oblivion's development because one of the lead designers, Emil Pagliarulo, had done a lot of work on the Thief series. In one comment (long lost to forum archive purging) he confirmed that climbing wouldn't be in, and mentioned the vast amount of work it had taken to get the blackjacks just right in the Thief games. And in another interview he said

"http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1356"

The same problems, of course, also apply to Skyrim.

I don't think I can even fathom how climbing would be implemented. I just don't feel it fits in anything other than daggerfall.

However, crouching seems so simple, all you have to do is change the hitbox. I'm willing to be it could be done to Oblivion right now through an update.

The only thing that annoyed me what crouch was that sometimes admittedly i forgot that i was in it and i played for like 15 minutes wondering why i was going to slow and then i realised :whistling:

ducking was pretty useless in Oblivion.

It would be neat insofar as it would allow level designers to make more elaborate dungeons that took advantage of a network of smaller passages that would perhaps give dungeons a "Maze" or "labyrinthine" feel and multiple routes to the same objective.

I can see it becoming quickly tedious however if you are sometimes forced to take these smaller passages, as you will most likely be traveling at a slower pace when you are crouched, slowing down the pace of action. Also it would be incredibly annoying for a melee oriented player to encounter an enemy whilst you were crouching as it would most likely be similar to Oblivion where you couldn't attack as fast.

That's probably part of Oblivion's world design; perhaps they sealed that area off with an invisible wall? In Nehrim there are some instances where sneaking does get you into tighter spots.

The only thing that annoys me is the fact that you are easily staggered if you're not crouched.

When I played Oblivion as a mage, I snuck everywhere.

I hope this is changed. It cut out a HUGE amount of level design opportunities in Fallout 3. What would be more fun than crawling through vents in the atomic wasteland? Nothing, thats what! I SERIOUSLY hope they fix that, and if they dont... well, I don't know what I'm going to do!

I would have liked a separate sneak mode like daggerfall.

Crouching shouldn't obligatorily be "sneaking"


I would have liked sneak mode to alter your movement patterns entirely. IE: hit the "sneak mode" button, your character starts using a separate set of "sneaking" animations and you can hug up against walls and stuff of that nature, crouching or standing.

This annoyed me more Fo3,nv

It's not Metal Gear Solid, they also have to worry about getting melee, ranged, magic combat right as well as many other things. I think the best they will be able to do will be to allow you to crouch and walk through openings which you couldn't walk through if you were standing up.

Oh that would annoy. :shakehead:

• Yes (but I don't actually remember that... though I probably noticed it at the time, and if so, it would have annoyed)
  
• No

Its not Metal gear solid

:wink_smile:

How did this not annoy people? It was ridiculously annoying in both Oblivion and Fallout 3 (and by extension New Vegas). But maybe that's just me, what with me having played the Half-Life games a million times. Maybe I've just become spoiled by having the fantastic ability to CROUCH THROUGH PASSAGES TOO LOW FOR YOU TO WALK THROUGH.

Jeez, Beth. We have the technology. It's been around for a while as well (and this should not be as difficult as making a functioning ladder, mind you).

I'm in a bad mood.

Well, obviously. Mostly because you couldn't duck.
Think if the level design possibilities if you could?



Maybe fighting in these areas isn't a good idea, but it's just a good way to make hidden passages or what not. A lot is added to an experience when you have to duck to get into small areas.

It was likely fixed in Nehrim. It honestly isn't that hard to fix to change the size of the hitbox.


How can you find it annoying, yet not want it fixed?

it only annoyed me to the extent where a was sneaking with a bow and in oblivion as i crouched an eye came up and i could no longer see where i was aiming did any one find this annoying too

Haha, maybe I should give an example of what I meant. So basically I killed this wight, and its corpse landed right between the doorframe, which meant I couldn't walk through it standing up. I tried crouching, but still couldn't walk through the door. This is the annoying part :biggrin:

Crawlspaces are pretty much always a plus in any game that features stealth.

So yeah, I'd love to see real crouching and areas designed with crawlspaces for the sneaky adventurer.

While we're talking about crouching, I think it'd be nice if you could go prone too. You're sneaking behind some necromancers outside of a cave and you throw yourself to the ground as they turn around, hiding in some grass. I think that sounds cool. Also, I was just thinking yesterday when I was playing New Vegas that it was a shame I couldn't get into anywhere special by crouching under some rubble or something. I felt like there was some missed opportunities there.

Was that implied?

My answers were 'Yes' it was annoying, and 'No' I would not want sneaking to double as crouching.

The thought you had never even crossed my mind.

The collision box should not be the same size if you are crouched or sneaking, that would be unrealistic for it to score hits against you if you're crouched by cover sneaking or not.

Besides... jumping in Oblivion made you into a humanoid mountain goat. You could scale sheer cliffs and rocky edifices by jumping about like a goat... if you can do that, Id doubt they'd pay much attention to something so minor as sneaking hit boxes.