Because I am working on a multi-player project for fallout 3, I decided to prevent people from opening up my mod in the GECK. So I made a program that can encrypt a .esp file. The .esp file can still work with the game as long as you have another program I made called NillaProtector.

Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcGJOu5-iRk

The program(s) at the moment aren't ready to be released because I am unsure of what vulnerabilities they have.

This goes against everything this community is built on. If it were not for the ability to open and examine other mods, I would not have learned how to mod.

This is a community built on trust, and the sharing of ideas. That is how we develop and grow. We help each other here, not hinder.

I'm just shocked by this... flabbergasted.

Speechless....

This is by far the most contraproductive project I've ever seen in this modding community.

It's quite ironic you're afraid of anybody stealing your work, considering you haven't released a single working project so far.

If you release an encrypter, wheres the decrypter? Some people, like myself like to make minor changes to mods to make them fit better with personal sytles, and having them encrypted removed that possibility. Not to mention if you only have an encrypter, someone uses it, and they can no longer open their project in the GECK, how can they continue to work on it for an updated version, or something of that nature? And if there is a decrypter, then this whole project is worthless anyway. You are running in an endless circle that can only lead to failure.

I feel you have trust issues. I don't know where you came from, but we are not out to steal others work. Although there are some like that out there, they are not associated with this community. If you cant accept people stealing, then you honestly shouldn't put out anything on the internet. You seem to be moding for all the wrong reasons.

I am not trying to be an [censored] about this, but am honestly serious. What did you hope to accomplish with this? This falls into the same thing as DRM programs on games. They only hurt the honest people.

Wrong move! How you make a succesfull mod:

a ) a genious idea
b ) good implenting of the idea
c ) a lot of dedication
d ) advertisment
e ) community

NillaCakester you have a, c & d (if you have b I have no idea according to your videos yes). But what you are destroying completly with the encrypter is point e. Modding is about community and fanbase. Protection schemes are the most hated thing in a pc gamer community. NillaCakester I would support you (without fee) wherever I can with scripting help because I like your ideas but not if you are using such things for your client.

There is plenty of online documentation of how to begin modding. Any person who chooses to protect their mod clearly does not want you snooping around in their hardwork. The only reason you would need to have access to someone's mod without their permission, is because you desire to take something that isn't yours.


Also the NillaProtector, as I put in the video description, decrypts the plugin files.

Good work. Is there any chance you might extend this onto content files like models/textures as well?

rant on/ Ssenkrad, Kai Hohiro: Yeah right. On everything the community is build on. Have you ever noticed that most of the content is ripped of from other projects? Stolen models from fpsbanana without credits etc etc. /rant off

Back to topic.

There will be no need for a decryption application. If this project ever comes to fruition, I will make every effort possible to crack the encryption algorithm, or find someone who can. Once the code is cracked, I will disseminate the key on every forum I have access to.

If you seriously intend to inject this poison into the veins of this community, it's going to be a full time project for you. I'm sure I won't be the only one trying to reverse engineer it.

I understand the reasons...and I support you in your modding endeavors, but I have to agree with the peanut gallery on this one, Nilla.

I have no problem with modders encrypting and secreting away things like third party programs, because those really aren't mods in the first place. But encrypting an ESP is like hiding away the gas stations. We look to others to fuel our ideas and mods. And most of us can't say that we don't take a peek just to see how the modder did it.

It goes against all of the unwritten commandments of the modding community. It's taking security a little too far. Of course, I can't stop you, but do consider the consequences on similar projects down the road.

1. As I stated, I like to do personal tweaks to make the mod fit my tastes better. Why do you generalize saying that the only reason they have to open it is for stealing?
2. If it has a decrypter, then why bother encrypting? someone could just obtain the encrypter and make it readable again. Its all rather silly.

While I strongly disagree with this method personally (and doubt the interest people would have in stealing your projects), you are of course free to do whatever you want with your mods so I'm not going to stop you. Not that I could...

If you plan to crack my program, first you should know that there is no code that unlocks every encrypted .esp.

Let me put it to you this way, you would have a better chance of getting a copy of the original .esp by opening a blank file, inputting random bytes, and seeing how long before the geck actually accepts it.


"someone could just obtain the encrypter and make it readable again".
I am not going to play mind games with you so you can gather clues. The encrypter could be hosted on a website so anyone could just upload their .esp and it would only spit back what you need for the NillaProtector to unencrypt the .esp and the .esp itself.

Er.. when i say for the NillaProtector to unencrypt, I mean for it. You won't be able to make sense of the key.

I can see how this can cause some problems. If someone encrypts their mod and disappears from the modding scene, nobody can do anything to fix the mod if a serious bug pops up, because it is encrypted. Fixing compatibility issues through a patch depending on the encrypted .esp would also be impossible I assume.

Overall it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

I am sure this megamodder would have friends. If he wanted, he could just give it to them without using the protector. That is the beauty of choice. Copy and paste is a great way to backup files!

So then how would an owner decrypt their own file? This isn't a mind game. I'm seriously interested in understanding how this will work and not be a pain in the ass. There has to be some way for your thing to know what file it can and cant decrypt. If you want people to use this, then you have to tell us how it works. Not the internal workings, but the external user portion. How would this be a viable option for protecting an ESP and still allow people like myself who like to tweak things for personal use?

You seem to forget human error. Not everyone remembers to back up files. And this statement isnt only about "Megamoders". A good number of low-key moders make mods that end up being huge, or just work alone.

Your primary .esp which is the one you plan to continue working on should not be the .esp you encrypt. Copy and paste is a way to duplicate files. Use it, and only encrypt the duplicate.

What if someone forgets to do this? You could code in such a thing to automate said process, but then you will end up with a surpluss of encrypted files, and it really annoys me to dig into the file structure just to delete duplicates. (Remind anyone of FO3MasterUpdate?)

And you still haven't mentioned anything about people who like to tweak.

I've had enough people use parts of my scripts in the past, and each time I was glad when they did so, because they've often produced http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=9487 http://fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1193 based on them. I don't even really care if they gave me credit or not.



There are two kinds of modders:
Those that make mods to improve their own game and those of fellow players, and who give a rats ass about how often their mods are endorsed or downloaded.
And those that do it only to get virtual praise and acolades. In other words: douchebags and losers.

You belong to the later. You're really the worst kind of modder and haven't produced anything valuable to the community, other than a flood of WIPz threads that never go anywhere and are only there to build your virtual ego.

That was the exact thing I was thinking of, if the user forgets to backup before encrypting, then what can they do?, Also I would actually suggest having the app make a backup of the ESP before encrypting just incase the user makes a mistake.

I don't think he plans to allow anyone to tweak at all.

if you really want this idea to go ahead, you should release an encrypter and a decrypter. However, to decrypt the mod requires a password which was set at encryption, else it wont work.

No way I would encrypt my mod just in case i delete the orginal and then have no way to edit it again. It is not uncommon for me to download one of my old mods to make a patch for it months after it was first releaseda nd has already been deleted. Just recently in the oblivion mods I updated one of my mods that was released 2 years ago, i did not still have the original.

Why would anyone want to prevent someone from learning how they did something in their mod? The entire focus of this community is to share our knowledge with each other ... not to hinder learning. My mods are my gift that I freely share, since my whole purpose in modding is to make my own game better not just for myself, but for others. Why would I care if someone wants to use what I have done in there own mod? Modding is not supposed to be a competition. That's why I've given permission for my work to be used in FWE, even though I have my own "overhaul" mod.

Quit with the silly act. Take a step outside of yourself for a moment and realize the only one intending to do harm right now is you. Your extremist viewpoint on the subject is inappropriate. A mature person would show some moderation in what he or she has to say You are not being a mature person!!


"The entire focus of this community is to share our knowledge with each other "
There are many ways to share knowledge. You haven't actually forgotten how to communicate to your peers of the community have you? Or is snatching someone's .esp a way of silently showing love?

@'NillaCakester': Why I don't think your argument about 'read the wiki and learn modding' isn't valid is simply called FOSE.

You have never looked at the FOSE source, correct?
You never would take a single line from this GPL puplished program for your own work, correct?

I am sure you used only the original manuals from MS to make your own projects and never looked at any code from another person.

It's not about protection it's about skill.

Do you really think everyone is out there to steal your mods?

It is a good thing Bethesda does not feel as you do or we would have no G.E.C.K. for this game.

Your mods just like everyone's mods are property of Bethesda and can not be sold. And thus...should be shared. Others may want to learn from your work or tweak your work to their liking.

Anyway, this thread is filled with flames and flamebait so it is closed.