[quote] And don't say that the trailer is PC video, its not in game. And that is what we PC players want to see. Crysis 2 in Enthusiast mode at 1900x1200. Then we can compare it to Crysis and Wars.[/quote]
Cevat Yerli said that they could do a CG trailer, but they tought that CE3 was good enough.
So I think it was made inside the "game"

What were they thinking Crysis 2 easily beat that kirby game Crysis 2 easily won best PC game, best PS3 game, best XBOX 360 game, best e3 game and best shooter.

[quote]What were they thinking Crysis 2 easily beat that kirby game Crysis 2 easily won best PC game, best PS3 game, best XBOX 360 game, best e3 game and best shooter.[/quote]
You need to think not about the game, if was like that the others wouldn't have a chance. It's about the presentation in E3, and crysis 2 had only 1 trailer

[quote][quote]What were they thinking Crysis 2 easily beat that kirby game Crysis 2 easily won best PC game, best PS3 game, best XBOX 360 game, best e3 game and best shooter.[/quote]
You need to think not about the game, if was like that the others wouldn't have a chance. It's about the presentation in E3, and crysis 2 had only 1 trailer
[/quote]

Exactly, Crytek didn't show anything. If some people weren't such Fanboys, they would see that Crytek have shown only XBox in-game. We still don't know what the PC Version ( or for that matter, even the PS3 version ) looks like. How can you vote on something that you have never seen? You Can't! So far, all we have gotten is a few XBox videos and a TON of hype! Everyone else at E3 showed what they had. Why didnt' Crytek? I'm losing more and more respect for Crytek daily. Soon, I will have none left.

Well, maybe I'm bias because I sat through a two hour personal presentation of the CE3 at GDC San Fran was super impressed with the PC graphics. I watched as someone worked on a map and ported to a 3D TV we were looking at and it was unreal. So yeah, maybe we are "Fan boys," but would you agree that anyone that takes the time to create an gamesas account, post 55+ times and read through this entire thread and comment might be at least a little bit of a fan boy?

BTW My vote was for best shooter and best graphics. Would have liked best 360 and PS3 but that might be asking too much. There was more than one trailer shown, I just did a quick search and saw this.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-crysis-2/101432

Stunning graphics.
Best of Show: SWTOR.

Yeah, and people like me have been here for over two years, with hundreds of posts, which Crytek made sure they wiped out. All part of their master plan to flood the forum with new fanboys.

Im sorry to say, that this game is an obvious console port, and nothing like the old Crysis MP or Wars. I'm really only interested in CE3, what it can do, and can we port the old Wars maps into it for more FPS. Of course, thats the million dollar question, since Crytek isn't showing us anything PC wise.

Well i got bad news for you. Tell me what you think of this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WJG14uLA3k

Not much. Thats very old video, came out ages ago. No telling what is up now.

Which is a good question. They saw fit to show us that stuff over a year ago, so why won't they show anything new now?

Though the guy does make some good points through it all on how much was ripped and gutted out of the console engine to enable the XBox or PS3 to run it. For instance, no objects on the far shore; barrels and such not appearing until they are 10 feet from you; listless water, etc.

Hey Enfedel, looks like these late nights with work are gunna make my responses always look late for the party! I reloaded the topic a number of times today and came up with some interesting things I wanted to share but most importantly I want to address two main things, the gamespot post and the direction of the game industry. I figure if I at least get my feet wet here in the forums then the words will flow much more freely in the future.

For those of you that don’t know me, I am an avid gamer, aspiring developer, and long time mapping buddy of Enfedel. If you need stats because you can’t take my word for it, just look me up on the internet, I am pretty easy to find. For those ready to move on, I should warn you… I have a lot to say…

Now lets start with the latter of my two topics, the direction of industry. I like to simplify the industries games and platforms into two branches that are both very different but very stable ways of thinking about players, their attitudes, and their console preferences that all existing simultaneously. I like to sum the console world up with a loose metaphor of Communism. Now there is some negative connotation with the word but think for a second of a land of games that exist in a world of equal. You put your money down and know that for X number of years, you are going to be covered. Its kind of like getting married or creating a team. You like a specific configuration and wish to learn how to explore all the facets of that. The platform is set and known, leaving the game to do most of the walking and talking. The developer no longer has to spend precious development cycles on new drivers, or compatibility issues. It instead becomes more about the game and how it uses the platform create its on identity within those boundaries. (I will come back to this point later so let it sink in)


The metaphor I use for Personal Computers, whether you like PC or Mac (more recently) compares games and players to Capitalism. Times are changing every day, technology is improving, and the short of it dictates that the biggest bang is going to draw the crowd. Maybe the console has a good fireworks display with a number of colors, but when that giant atomic bomb bursts on the horizon, everyone is sure to turn their head. PC games often times are marketed in a way to do just that. During their evolution they have grown more complex with the power of the processor and the easiest way to draw people to play was most of the time graphics. It makes sense, when I buy a computer for 5 grand, I want to be able to say, my computer is the only computer I know that can run this new game. It is what validates my purchase. On the other hand, if I buy an expensive thing and never use it, well then maybe next time I am not so quick to jump on board. So the trend I have seen year after year, and trust me I am an old guy as gaming is concerned, is to say well my game/computer has the best ___. It is an easy way to quantify some things capital and lets all be honest. Gaming is a business.

Now my personal take on business is much more aggressive which may affect my reasoning. Lets agree with, most people want to do well at what they do. Each and every individual I know wants to walk away from something they did with a sense of accomplishment. Hey I climbed that mountain, I built this house, I raised my kid to be a great father, or even I made a really impactful game.

So, making games is both a business and a passion, and knowing your audience is important in being a great game maker. I am sure that Yerli, Camarillo, Lancaster, Soderbaum, and Larbrant (and if you don’t know who these people are you should. I will give you a hint, they are last names) are avid PC Gamers. It is only logical for them to be as passionate about the games they play to want to make their games the way they do.

Well I will let you in on a little secret, actually its not so secret, Previously Crytek has been a developer that has existed for the PC world, creating new benchmarks with their technologies as they also as a company have evolved over the years. But something happened a number of years ago when Console gaming started becoming more popular. The seed that became the branch that makes console gaming possible, grew large enough to interfere with the Console Market. And then two other things happened. The first, and I am so sad to say it, was World of Warcraft. Just like 3rd party Wii titles struggle to make a profit on the Wii, PC games post WoW showed great losses in projected revenue. (I will get to the second later)

So as a business what is a company to do when they have a title that exists on a platform where the competition is catching up? Well the answer is easier said then done. They innovate! You see this a lot on the consoles because there is a ceiling and a floor. The growth for the industry and the draws for the people to keep interested must come from innovating. On consoles, there is a limit to how good something can look, so each game does it a little better, that’s usual growth, but Console games are given a positive handicapped to innovate because of the foundations the games are being created within.

So what does the PC world of gaming do? Well, what they did was create a platform. This is actually how Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony all got started. They decided that there is a moment when you have reached a saturation point with the market and the only way to continue growing is to expand. So you create a platform. PCs did this, the first step was through creating game engines. I am sure everyone has heard of Unreal by now. (If not you should look up a company called Epic) They made the process for making games easier by providing a stable foundation. It then became the Studios focus to innovate within those rules. Huh, not so different from console gaming. But growing for the industry didn’t stop there, as many of you know and will probably use the service to buy your Crysis 2, Steam showed up. Same platform idea, but now bringing games together in a single place by creating a platform.

The two sides evolved together, online chat, platforms, game services, multiplayer gaming, creative content, and so on but still manage to be different from one another. Why? Well some might argue power of processor, or drive to customize, but I think it can be viewed as I originally outlined.

The PC world doesn’t understand the Console world because they, like communism and capitalism, exist mostly independently from one another.. The people from each branch have their sites set on different things, maybe one being the best at one thing, and the other having the most new things. Lets move on,

Now I am finally getting to the second thing, the recession. This put a pretty big squeeze on the game industry and even the larger companies were grossly effected by the way things changed. Again, coming closer to a saturation point in the market the Industry has decided to innovate. This time, instead of a platform for other game companies to creating something within its own branch, why not create something that spans both branches. I think that is where the seed for CE3 came from and the reason we are seeing Crysis2 being introduced on the consoles.

The world is a mixing pot like it has never been, now with console and PC players even occupying the same forums. A lot of it is passion to be something greater and a lot of it is to find a way to share growth and innovation with others. Will both genres be diluted at first so that everyone can move forward together? maybe so. But what is more important to me is seeing how the industry adapts and changes in a world where everyone can exist on a more common ground.

Well that is the iceberg tip of what I wanted to say about the second thing. Now on to Gamespot. Gaming is an industry and a long time growing too. EA celebrated 25 years recently(with the last couple years). That may be even older then most of you reading this, if you have the patients to still be here. With long histories like that castles have been created, boundaries forged, alliances made and broken. My point is that there are major businesses involved in some very grown up commerce.

Now I am not a conspiracy theorist but think about how giant companies like Blizzard, EA, Activision, and Venvedi are? Yes I am aware there 4 of those are in essence the same company. So now imagine no matter how powerful or big your empire had become, your castle was still under fire. Remember I mentioned recession earlier which effects game sales, and share values. A company like EA who had stock at 50-60 dollar a share on a bad day, now saw those values split in half twice, lucky to get 20 bucks a share in an awesome year. EA is a giant company and when the water raises, all the boats in the see are elevated. When the swells lower though, there are a lot of boats scrapping to get by, a lot of studios looking for a way to stay afloat. So the executives sit around in a big office and make a decision. What is it? You should know that by know, it is an ongoing theme today. They innovate! How do they do this? Well first you open your own studio at your Headquarters. You know you can trust the people their. Then you use your leverage as a large company to get the people you need to make the game right. You change the formula, you give it a make over, and then you market it. Nintendo is great at this, look at all those 1st party titles. Gamespot has nothing to report on if they aren’t given information and if the company they get the information from favors a particular project, well then the reporter might also.

Maybe it is coincidence that Game Spots Best PC Game (Dead Space 2) was the game that was developed at the Studio created at EAs Headquarters and not a game (Crysis 2) created at a studio that the Publisher has partnered with (Crytek) ? But I like to think it is strategic planning. Don’t get me wrong Dead Space is a great innovative game and Extraction was beautiful for a Wii title. But then I realized a point I made earlier which was, Dead Space was created across all platforms but found ways to be inventive and innovative in each. It pushed the PCs urges by delivering create graphics for a more mature audience. But it also redesigned how we think about HUD elements by hiding dialogs with cinematic, or health bars on your character or gun. It became more immersive because of these new innovations which make it refreshing to play. And that brings me back to the gamespot video. I think that the interviewers at the end hit it right on the head. In the world of PC gaming, the keyboard and mouse are standard and a consumer base that is unwilling to move beyond that, limits the games that can be created. Because Kirby was traditionally a kids platformer it gets a bad wrap. But look at how it innovates beyond the controller. It uses an art style that aids the game. The natural movement and flow you’ld expect from cloth, the way it crumbles to shorten gaps, or pulls over you character who travels around that space. It reaches beyond the normal box of swinging your arms or shake your wrist movements and delivers that through every aspect of the gameplay. No element of the game can be removed without diluting it. How awesome would Crysis 2 be if it wasn’t just 3D but used Kinect and Move controls to really put you in the suit. Did Crytek make the leap to push their game by plucking the obvious extensions of gameplay and incorporate them into the design? I would love to feel my arm swing the arm of the nano suit. Maybe its all conspiracy theories. Maybe it’s the result of an industries sensitivity and realizing we must all coexist in order to keep moving forward? Here is another one for coincidences, I noticed a lot of asian influenced games winning awards this year and remember tons of articles pointing out how Japans game market was dying last year. Everyone is trying to do the best they can which makes me really excited to see what is coming next. I love the identities that are emerging every day in the world and industry of gaming but what I would love more would be to sit with someone like Cevat Yerli to thank him for his contribution to my past and offer him some money making solutions for the future.

TLDR
Got a sum-up version?

[quote]@Enfadel - "Just give us great graphics and a lot of options to customize and we will be happy little gamers."

CE2 already does this. If Crytek really wants to sell this new engine, then it has to be as good as CE2, which had amazing lighting, plus more. So far I'm not seeing it. But of course, all we have so far is a trailer that is rumored to be done on CE3, which looks OK at best. Crytek needs to show the PC video and screens.[/quote]
[quote]@Enfadel - "Just give us great graphics and a lot of options to customize and we will be happy little gamers."

CE2 already does this. If Crytek really wants to sell this new engine, then it has to be as good as CE2, which had amazing lighting, plus more. So far I'm not seeing it. But of course, all we have so far is a trailer that is rumored to be done on CE3, which looks OK at best. Crytek needs to show the PC video and screens.[/quote]

Have you seen any of the editor footage from GDC? They have done amazing things with lighting and shaders that you simply cannot do with CE2. Trust me, I'm a modder that works with CE2 and there are MAJOR limitations that make indoor levels very difficult to light properly. CE3 is supposed to dramatically increase the number of dynamic lights that you can have on the screen to the100's while CE2 only allows around 16 or so before everything looks weird. If you want to use decals (blood splatters etc.) then you can only have 7 dynamic lights in view before you have a fading issue with the decal. CE3 will be great! You're simply making judgements without knowing all of the facts.

Trying to mix console and PC does not work. Two very different worlds. On your current trend, you are just going to end up alienating a lot of PC gamers, who are not going to be impressed by a console port. You can call it whatever you want, but that's what it is so far.

If you want to impress PC gamers, the new engine has to have all the same things as CE2, but more and better. Otherwise, why should we buy it?

The NY map, weapons, etc. look very consolish, so I'm not really interested in the game itself. Im interested in the Engine.

@Neokinesis

The other guy in this post mentioned something about Jeff Gerstmann getting fired and it just made me think about the corporate mentality, i did some more digging and found some blogs by GameSpot employees about their management. basically said that the magazine chief has been replaced by a suit and that we can't forget that the company is just that, a company. There is a bottom line and ultimately they need to make a profit. so i guess there is this line you have to walk where you must please (or mislead) your audience just enough while making sure your advertisers are happy. while this is the case, there can never be any true honesty in these reviews considering all the angles involved. Its like Fox news, they present themselves as a "news" organization but no one working there is an actual journalist. It is a network that claims to be fair and balanced when it is actually an extremely long republican talking point infomercial. There is a guise of unbiased opinion among both of these organizations, fox news and GameSpot but their strings are being pulled from the shadows.

lol, there are no unbiased news services anymore.

Fox = Republican

CNN = Democrat

MSNBC = Bleeding Heart, Ultra Liberal, Democrat.

@ Enfedel

I am reminded of a time when I was discussing marketing strategies with a Producer buddy at Capcom. I discovered that there is a whole behind the scenes relationship that exists between the Developer/Publishers and the Reporting/News Companies. I was asking specifically about GameStops threat to the Publishers because of their reselling and preorder offers. I always thought it was silly to do exclusive characters and levels that are only sold at certain stores. Turns out there is usually a contract that involves the Reseller saying they will do a ‘quantifiable something’ if ‘X’ number of Pre-Orders are made. Maybe Gamespot has some kind of similar agreement EA or Kirby's Company. They promise them the first public interview or something and make their quota at some point, so they are just returning the favor.

What is wrong with Fox News? It is great entertainment! When I sit down and watch I try not to get as wrapped up with the things they are presenting as facts as much as the overall message. Content is usually explored in some new way to make it sound urgent or all encompassing but the message then gets lost. When you have reporters reading tele-prompters the only way they can personalize it is by grabbing the exaggeration and trying to find something else to compare it too. I think that is where they go wrong. They are selling an opinion often times with little backing, Kind of like Jerry Springer. The message is usually, look at the moral responsibilities of doing whatever action topic they choose for the day. The fun for me with Fox, like Jerry Springer, are the fights. My favorite Fox segment relevant to gaming in the last couple years has to be Lawrence Cooper turning Mass Effect into a six Scandal of sorts.

At the end of the day, you only get one chance to market for your game. After release it is a whole new ballgame. I think a lot of developers drop the ball with their character designs. Have you seen some of the character designs for KillZone 2? I think they pose a lot better than Crysis 2’s NanoSuit2 design. Maybe Crytek wants that ‘big bulky’ and ‘just muscle through like a tank‘ look? Still think they should be pushing the extremes of their character designs more. Where is the Marketing Gold? Ask me about Lara Crofts Ponytail sometime…

holy crap neokinesis, my eyes just can't take reading that whole thing lol.

That is unfortunate, you might learn something, or better yet, have some insight to lend as well...

lol nice essay there neo

I'm still unclear on your capitalism/communist anology there but I'm too lazy to come up with a cohesive response to it anyway. I don't think I completely agree with your idea that the console and PC market are fundamentally different, just as Capitalism/Communism are fundamentally different. Both PC and Consoles adhere to a strict set of technical rules and boundaries and exhibit some sort of evolution. Sure, PC hardware may be much more broad and fast-changing than console hardware, but PC hardware evolves in small chunks that follow a predictable trend. Consoles also periodically evolve with new types of controllers, add-ons software changes, and the like, but instead undergo a complete hardware change every X number of years (sometimes, the shift is so dramatic that the games from the previous console era will not work on the new console generation). But at its core, PC and Console gaming follow the same rules of technological evolution.

I have some other ideas floating around, but I don't think they make any sense at all, so I'll stop here.

Just some interesting food for thought:

[quote] But it also redesigned how we think about HUD elements by hiding dialogs with cinematic, or health bars on your character or gun. It became more immersive because of these new innovations which make it refreshing to play.[/quote]

Actually, I think that a lot of people overlook the significance of the HUD in Crysis.

The largest limiting factor to immediacy in the game form or any media form for that matter (that is, a completely immersive experience) is the interface of the game.

Interface can be pretty much anything that we use to interact with the game (keyboard/mouse, computer screen, TV screen, sound effects, music, graphics, HUD, etc).

Now the way to make a game really immersive is to break down these interfaces and make them "transparent" and blend with the media form itself. The Wii, Kinect, and Motion Plus all try to break down the controller aspect of the game interface by allowing people to control their in-game avatar through motions instead of controller inputs. Dead Space tried to eliminate the HUD interface by erasing the game HUD all together.

Crysis does something very interesting though. It basically takes the game HUD and makes it, so to speak, part of the game reality. If you've played Crysis you will notice that in the very first cutscene Prophet says "masks on," the screen goes black for a second, and then the HUD actually boots up. THIS is the critical moment, because at this moment, the HUD doesn't just become a way for the player to track ammo, health, etc, it becomes a way for NOMAD to track his health, data, ammo, etc. The HUD, therefore, exits our reality and at the same time becomes part of the game's reality, thus very cleverly making the HUD interface transparent. Combined with non-broken cutscenes (none of that fade-to-black and use pre-rendered cutscene crap) and some of the most stunning visuals and you have yourself a pretty immediate experience.

My main point is that Crytek don't need to use Kinect or any of that motion sensor malarky because they can make a game more immediate by focusing on what is happening inside the screen itself.

@mangosango Looks like we are on the same page. I agree that Crysis 2 does not need to use the motion controls, but would love to punch through a buidling or throw a tank with my 3D Glasses on by just swignign my arms. Sure I might crash through my coffee table and swear up a storm when i spend the next hour soaking up my drink from the carpet with towels. Those moments make the best memories for me these days. I want to get lost in the experience and whisked away by the media.

The effortless flick of a wrist, wave of a Move wand. or clapping of my hands to push a title wave of air through the virtual world seems like such a great fit here. The nano suit is created to protect and amplify the soldiers movements. The soldier in there feels nothing but maintains full control. I have a pretty open mind for what to expect from Crytek. The fan in me knows Crytek would find a way to do it right . I still think its a great idea.

So, about those unexersized ideas...?

[quote]holy crap neokinesis, my eyes just can't take reading that whole thing lol.[/quote]
It's worth reading, unfortunately we can't choose a bigger letter size.

@mangosando I almost cried reading that, Crysis just take me to another world while I'm playing, I put my noise-cancelling headphones, stay a bit to near the screen and just stay there playing for hours, what Crytek achieved it's almost magical. I wasn't really into PC gaming until I bought Crysis, I was going to buy a PS3, but I realized I can do much more with a High-end PC and a 3D monitor (not talking about PC vs. console, just what I thought at the time) the fact that the whole game is rendered inside the engine, no pre-made cut scenes and other things just make me immerse even more in the game.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Crytek will let PC Gamers Behind, but they will set a new level for PC and Consoles gaming.
Sorry for my lack of cohesion and bad english

@neokinesis I read it but you're splitting the console and PC crowd too much. I own like 12 consoles if you count handhelds and a good gaming PC. I also found your article to be politically charged and full of tangents.

I don't even really know WHY you posted that or who or what it was in response to. It's like your just dumping your thoughts on the page as they come, there's no flow to the article.

What were you trying to demonstrate with the article?

@Weaver

really, you didn't understand his point? if your curious, read all the former post and then read his over again.

@neokinesis, well I did actually read that, and to some degree, it kinda makes sense, though once you mentioned Laura Crofts Pony Tail, it got kinda hard to keep on track. lol, but thanks for your thoughts, now I'm gunna take something for this headache, Beggining to think text could be a bit larger, if only a point or two . lmao.

I want to know who in the hell decided that the print should be at 5 points.

12 Point print please!