How exactly does he contradict himself? He is saying that higher performing profiles causes flickering. To stop flickering, and therefore increase performance, the app (i.e. Crysis 2) needs to be updated.
He then goes onto to say that for Crysis 2 to have increased performance, it needs updating. I don't see the contradiction here.

Crysis 2 isn't AFR-friendly and using high performing profiles causes flickering. To stop flickering, Crysis 2 needs updating.

Also, although Bioshock doesn't cause flickering, it's performance is well below what is should be. Some parts of the game just don't scale at all.

And the flickering still isn't completely fixed. It still see flickering when using nano vision.

I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I'm going with the guy who actually writes the Catalyst software.

Simple, he contradicts himself by saying that you can't get higher CF performance unless Crysis 2 is updated, but then turns around and says that you can by using different CF profiles.

Furthermore, he states that Crysis 2 will continue to flicker regardless of what is done, short of updating Crysis 2. This is also incorrect because the Bioshock CAP does not cause flickering at the cost of scaling, and AMD's CAP resolves the flickering.

Note to all ^^: Stop feeding the troll (aka lavans6879)

http://scientopia.org/blogs/voltagegate/files/2010/12/Trollface-Coolface-Problem-Know-Your-Meme1.png

How am I a troll? By suggesting to people to go with what's proven to work and update their drivers, rather than waiting for a magical fix from Crytek?

Let's back up. The issue is whether the flickering is a driver problem or a problem with Crysis 2 itself. Andrew has stated that it's Crysis 2 not being AFR-friendly, which requires an update.

But I give up. You're clearly getting confused.

Like I said. He actually writes the software, so I'll stick with Andrew's opinion.

Let's back up. The issue is whether the flickering is a driver problem or a problem with Crysis 2 itself. Andrew has stated that it's Crysis 2 not being AFR-friendly, which requires an update.

But I give up. You're clearly getting confused.

Like I said. He actually writes the software, so I'll stick with Andrew's opinion.

Very well, feel free to continue to wait for a magical fix from Crytek. I can only tell you what has been proven to work and what likely will not work. If you don't want to listen, then that's fine, because I'm not the one having to struggle with the flickering issue.

Bear in mind that I experienced the same issue you're complaining about, and I fixed it by updating my drivers. So, I'll continue to play flicker free with proper scaling thanks to AMD updating their application profiles. Let me know when Crytek gets around to fixing your driver issue.

I can also confirm that updating drivers and CAP fixed my flickering.

If it's fixed, then why is this thread still open and full of people saying its NOT fixed?

lavans6879 keeps getting...

MAXIMUM OWNED!!!

"How many times does it need to be said that the APP can be fixed by changing the driver profile?"

If you actually read the PDF, you wouldn't have said that.

"Simple, he contradicts himself by saying that you can't get higher CF performance unless Crysis 2 is updated, but then turns around and says that you can by using different CF profiles."

Just what i thought... you are confusing what he said about the performance (scaling), and what he said about the bug (flickering), which are both related to AFR, which he is clearly blaming. Let's assume something can be done on the driver level to try to fix the flickering. That is not a fix, that's a patch done by a third party that is not responsible.

I'm sure if this issue was fixed, Cry-Adam would be the first to post that it is truly fixed and close the related threads. It wouldn't make sense to let people continue to bad mouth its products if the issue was in fact corrected.

You keep smart mouthing like a know it all, jurassic, but you haven't taken the time to answer my question. In fact, it almost seems like you're avoiding the question.

In case you missed it the first two times, I'll ask a third and final time.

If it's a problem with the game, then why does changing driver versions fix the issue ( if not for everyone, then at least some people )?

If it's a problem with the game, then why does changing driver versions fix the issue ( if not for everyone, then at least some people )?

Because it's not magically "fixed" just by using specific driver versions. Certain combinations of hardware, driver and CAPs/SLI Profile appear to alleviate the issue but that, in fact, does not actually fix the actual problem. It's like sweeping the problem under a rug under the impression that'll get rid of it. For the vast majority of users it does not do a single thing to reduce the problem. I mean, I've been through tons of different versions of drivers which people have sworn on their mothers' graves will fix the problem but none have. In fact some have made it worse. So getting your knickers in a twist over people telling you that it is not fixed just because it works for you is an utter waste of time.

My theory is that the issue stems from the way the Light Propagation Volume works. LPV requires rendering lighting information into a relatively large 3D RenderTarget (or mutliple slices of 2D RenderTarget with some funky math to tie them together). This is both used and updated each frame which is exactly the Inter-Frame Dependency issue which others have been trying to explain to you. This certainly seems to be the case as the "flickering" is obviously lighting and varies depending on the amount and types of light being rendered. It's almost like the LPV is only kept current in one card's Memory while the other is out dated or even just corrupt, causing major discrepancies between one frame and the next. This is definitively a Crytek problem, not a driver issue.

It's not that everyone else isn't listening to you. It's that youre not listening to everyone else. We are saying that the fact you've stumbled on the driver & CAPs combination which gets it working flicker free on your specific hardware is purely an exception, not the rule. Crytek failed to test critical elements of the Multi-GPU rendering code and they need to fix it. All drivers can do is try to stick a bandaid around it.

hukuy

If it's a problem with the game, then why does changing driver versions fix the issue ( if not for everyone, then at least some people )?

Because it's not magically "fixed" just by using specific driver versions. Certain combinations of hardware, driver and CAPs/SLI Profile appear to alleviate the issue but that, in fact, does not actually fix the actual problem. It's like sweeping the problem under a rug under the impression that'll get rid of it. For the vast majority of users it does not do a single thing to reduce the problem. I mean, I've been through tons of different versions of drivers which people have sworn on their mothers' graves will fix the problem but none have. In fact some have made it worse. So getting your knickers in a twist over people telling you that it is not fixed just because it works for you is an utter waste of time.

My theory is that the issue stems from the way the Light Propagation Volume works. LPV requires rendering lighting information into a relatively large 3D RenderTarget (or mutliple slices of 2D RenderTarget with some funky math to tie them together). This is both used and updated each frame which is exactly the Inter-Frame Dependency issue which others have been trying to explain to you. This certainly seems to be the case as the "flickering" is obviously lighting and varies depending on the amount and types of light being rendered. It's almost like the LPV is only kept current in one card's Memory while the other is out dated or even just corrupt, causing major discrepancies between one frame and the next. This is definitively a Crytek problem, not a driver issue.

It's not that everyone else isn't listening to you. It's that youre not listening to everyone else. We are saying that the fact you've stumbled on the driver & CAPs combination which gets it working flicker free on your specific hardware is purely an exception, not the rule. Crytek failed to test critical elements of the Multi-GPU rendering code and they need to fix it. All drivers can do is try to stick a bandaid around it.

See, that's the point I'm trying to get at. Currently, there's not been a single patch for Crysis 2 that's yielded any effect on the issue, positive or negative. But we're seeing driver versions coming out that are making a direct impact on the issue at hand. The point of Catalyst Application Profiles is to fix the issues that the game developer could not. If it was a problem strictly with the game, then alternating driver versions would not impact the issue at all.

I really don't know how long you've been using a multi-GPU system, or how many multi-GPU issues you've been exposed to. But the issue with Crysis 2 goes hand in hand with almost every single other game that I've played that's had a multi-GPU issue, some of which were similar, some of which weren't.

Furthermore, the actual reason as to why it doesn't resolve the issue for everybody is because not everybody is using the same architecture on their video card. This is the same reason why someone using a HD4870 will suffer an issue, but a person using a HD5850 won't have any issue at all. Not only that, but not all driver versions are of the same packaging version, so they won't always offer the same results between other versions with the same relative release date.

Is it possible that a patch to Crysis 2 would fix the issue? I'll go on a limb and say sure, why not? But as it stands, the symptoms that the issue is displaying coincides directly with the drivers. People can claim and speculate all they want, but speculation without any hard/concise evidence to go with is nothing more than moot. It's results that matter. So, people can claim all they want, but if there's no results to go with it, then they're just wasting air.

Currently, a document about AFR optimization and the claims of a single driver engineer is nothing in light of updated drivers showing the results we're looking for.

Uh, dude? You're effectively saying "Who cares what the people who actually know what they're talking about say? I know I'm right and everyone else in the world is wrong." You're discounting OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION from the hardware manufacturer for no other reason than believing you're correct. If you were correct and it was purely a driver issue then we all wouldn't be stuck in this highly circular argument with you.

There's no point in trying to explain this to you any more, it's obvious you're not going to listen anyone, even if you have half of AMD's GPU engineers and driver developers coming in here and telling you exactly what everyone else is telling you: that it's Crytek's fault for the dodgy Multi-GPU usage.

I mean, ffs, we've already had a Crytek programmer come in here and admit it's their own damn fault and that they are trying to fix!

Uh, dude? You're effectively saying "Who cares what the people who actually know what they're talking about say? I know I'm right and everyone else in the world is wrong." You're discounting OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION from the hardware manufacturer for no other reason than believing you're correct. If you were correct and it was purely a driver issue then we all wouldn't be stuck in this highly circular argument with you.

There's no point in trying to explain this to you any more, it's obvious you're not going to listen anyone, even if you have half of AMD's GPU engineers and driver developers coming in here and telling you exactly what everyone else is telling you: that it's Crytek's fault for the dodgy Multi-GPU usage.

I mean, ffs, we've already had a Crytek programmer come in here and admit it's their own damn fault and that they are trying to fix!

Right, so if it was as simple as changing the inter-frame dependencies ( as what you believe the issue to be ), then why hasn't it been done yet?

In fact, it's not that simple. Most games do not use AFR, regardless what you may or may not believe.

Anyway, all I can say is enjoy your driver issues. Mine's been fixed and I couldn't be happier ( unless of course I could figure out how to run the game with SSAA ). Sorry for trying to educate you on what should be a rather logical troubleshooting diagnosis.

ummmmmm.....I would just like to run SLI with no flickering...

And that's just highlights the fact you're completely failing comprehend what other people are telling you. To use your so called logic "if it was as simple as a driver issue, why is everyone else still having problems?"

No one ever said it was a simple fix on Crytek's side, we're just saying that it's on Crytek's side because that's what it clearly is! Crytek have said so, AMD have said so and NVidia have said so. In fact the only saying otherwise is you, mate. Who else can possibly say anything to convince you of this fact? You're not educating people, you're just spreading misleading information and utterly ignoring the actually educated information which you're being given.

"Changing interframe dependencies", as you put it, is the complete opposite of the trivial matter you're assuming it is. The whole realtime indirect illumination technique the game uses (you know, the Light Propagation Volume I mentioned earlier) is based around methods which are interframe dependent in and of themselves! It's no wonder they are taking their time to fix it because it's probably the most complex problem on their bug tracker right now due to how complex the system originally was. LPV is interframe dependent at the conceptual level and that is something someone with your "education" should be more than aware of.

And sure, go enjoy your working crossfire, especially if it means you won't waste your breath trying to convince people of something that's completely wrong.

And that's just highlights the fact you're completely failing comprehend what other people are telling you. To use your so called logic "if it was as simple as a driver issue, why is everyone else still having problems?"

I actually already answered that question two posts ago. Seems like someone isn't taking the time to read what's being discussed.

I posted one new solution: http://www.gamesas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=26732

its happening with the EVGA GtX 590 when I use a dedicated physix card but when i removed the physix card it stopped. Just something to think about because it is utilizing both GPU's on the 590 without a problem. I think it has something to do when you have to run SLI the old fashioned way utilizing multiple pci-e slots and bridges.

bump for **** and giggles, I might re-install and get some of my monies' worth out of this some day when it's fixed.

Latest everything installed. Problem persists. Flickering is on until I adjust brightness (wth is that all about?!) but performance takes a hit. It is clear that the driver updates fix the problem for some, and not others and therefore this issue is far from "solved". Solving an issue implies creating a solution that eradicates the issue completely.
I'm sure Crytek haven't given up on it, but they are taking their sweet damn time. 52 Days and counting...

I have 2 Ati 5870s in XFire and the flickering is still there with the 11.4 driver. The thing is, the game Mirrors Edge got the excact same problem when XFire is enabled. It's about time ATI comes up with a fix, this problem has lasted long enough!

hi this is shawn here I just wonder how I do fix for server only have 3 on list dunno what I doing ? needs patches I have V 1.1 any idea?

Damn, and i'm soon going to buy another 5850...

You keep smart mouthing like a know it all, jurassic, but you haven't taken the time to answer my question. In fact, it almost seems like you're avoiding the question.

In case you missed it the first two times, I'll ask a third and final time.

If it's a problem with the game, then why does changing driver versions fix the issue ( if not for everyone, then at least some people )?


Wow this is too easy...

"If it's a problem with the game, then why does changing driver versions fix the issue ( if not for everyone, then at least some people )?"

If it's not fixed for EVERYONE, then how is that fixed?

Uh, dude? You're effectively saying "Who cares what the people who actually know what they're talking about say? I know I'm right and everyone else in the world is wrong." You're discounting OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION from the hardware manufacturer for no other reason than believing you're correct. If you were correct and it was purely a driver issue then we all wouldn't be stuck in this highly circular argument with you.

There's no point in trying to explain this to you any more, it's obvious you're not going to listen anyone, even if you have half of AMD's GPU engineers and driver developers coming in here and telling you exactly what everyone else is telling you: that it's Crytek's fault for the dodgy Multi-GPU usage.

I mean, ffs, we've already had a Crytek programmer come in here and admit it's their own damn fault and that they are trying to fix!


+1

In fact, it's not that simple. Most games do not use AFR, regardless what you may or may not believe.

Since the AFR mode is the most efficient we recommend aiming for your APPLICATION to work well with this mode. To achieve this you should try to reduce inter-frame dependencies. A common cause of an inter-frame dependency is when the result in a render target is reused in the next frame. This can be because of light-trail or motion blur effects or simply that the APPLICATION as an optimization doesn’t update the render target every frame.

http://developer.amd.com/media/gpu_assets/Programming_for_CrossFire.pdf

Too **** easy owning this guy.