so, my brother and i were argueing about deadric princes being panzies.. i say they are panzies because some random adventureer always thwarts their plans and beats them. he countered by saying the only time that actually happens is in oblivion, i said what about morrowind, he says that that wasnt a random adventurer that it was the reincarnation of nerevar. altho i do already know this to be true, i argue that any random adventurer could hae done the same thing. being "chosen by the gods" as my brother put it has no relevance. he calls me a heretic for bringing all this up.. lol.



so i guess this is pretty much just a topic to get other people opinions on this subject. what makes being the reincarnation of nerevar so special and could any random adventure acomplish the same feats.

Shun the unbeliever!

...But really, not every random adventurer is superpowerful enough to make a godlike guy in a mask fall in to a pit of lava two times.

Well, the Nerevar was a great warlord that unified the Dunmer to defeat and kill the Dunmer. He is basically a god in Morrowind and the Heart of Lorkhan and all of that, but not every random advanturer can do that. The character that the player is can though, because the end up being Cyrus, the Nerevar, or the Champion of Cyrodil.

Also, Deadric Princes arn't panzies, the Nine are. Atleast the deadra does something.

Heh, silly you: you think the Aedra don't do anything...

Either that or you think they CAN'T do anything.

being a warlord in a past life means virtually nothing, how is he going to use any of his warlord knowledge if he cant remember it? and couldnt the gods have just chosen any random fetus to become some superpowerful pusher of masked men into a pit of lava? the only thing i think that makes any of these heros special is that they happend to win the raffle and become someone noteworthy instead of an innocent bystander. anyone could have been chosen. there is no reason any other adventurer couldnt have found a way to accomplish the same things.

Dude, Azura, a Daedric Lord, is literally responsible for the Nerevarine's existence. You act as if anyone could have literally jumped up and sastisfied all of the prophecies and whatnot; while more than one person fufilled SOME of them, they're...dead...now. If I interpret info correctly the Nerevarine is "http://www.imperial-library.info/obscure_text/nu-hatta.shtml," as one Nu-Hatta has said, which means he's practically a god, if he literally isn't one. I'll provide you the link to this document soon.

edit: link added.

I'm sure Dagon would respectfully disagree with you... once he finds all the rended pieces of his vocal chords amongst the detritus in Oblivion so he can.

In truth, absolutely nothing. Afterall, one of your possible responses to Dagoth Ur's question "Are you really Nerevar reborn?" is "I am a self-willed hero, and I make my own fate."

Well, one thing, Vivec's approval... but nothing apart from that...

Well, from what I recall, souls of mortals on Nirn usually end up going to the Dreamsleave... and sometimes they get reused... so I suppose Azura was banking on the chance that Nerevar's soul would slip out of the Dreamsleave and back into Nirn. I don't think Nerevar was a 'god,' he didn't use Kagrenac's tools like Vivec, Almalexia, Sotha Sil, and Dagoth Ur did.

you forget Azura is a Daedric prince, and while I won't act like I know hella lots about Azura's powers, if she can literally cause a race to change appearance, then I don't push reincarnating a Chimer hero too far out of possibility. She probably wouldn't have to just guess.

And read what Nu-Hatta has to say about the Nerevarine; if he's not a god in the traditional sense, then he is most certainly what I'll refer to colloquially as "bad as [censored]."

Maybe the Nerevarine did achieve some sort of godliness via the http://www.imperial-library.info/fsg/nazzarticle05.shtml phenomenon?

Eh, I guess you could see the Enantiomorph as a possibility.

I personally think it has moreso to do with prophecy rather than the Enantiomorph; it makes a great deal of sense, when you look at it in the perspective the article provides, but I feel it's moreso a mere mimic...if a "mere mimic" can be only that in a world where "mere mimic" can yield great power. I say I think it was the prophecy because Enantiomorphs in the past, once again, if I understand them correctly, bring about some great creation: see the Amulet of Kings (where supposedly Alessia is one of the gems) and Talos; pretty sure Pelinal had something to do with the Amulet as well, and note he was techincally Akatosh and Lorkhan in one.

That being said, Nu-Hatta DOES say he is pantheon by incarnation. I take that as having some version of godhood upon his creation.

I must be particularly think-headed today... where do I find this Nu-Hatta?

In the link I provided in one of my earlier posts...

Although I am not doubting the nerevarine's power or the other's power or anything like that, one question does come to mind

Why can just any random bandit or badguy or even boring old guards just right out kill the hero with not much trouble? I thought this nerevarine guy was godlike, yet some lousy ordinator just chopped his arms off! What the world! Look, a bear just ate the Nerevarine! How did that happen?

Any random adventurer would have died without fail at any of 3 points during the Main Quest. First of Corprus, then of the Corprus Cure, then of the Moon and Star Ring.

Sure, being in a pantheon denotes some sort of godhood, but what do either of those really mean practically? Being in a pantheon (being a god) is highly overrated and without the proper mythopoeic forces it really doesn't mean jack. The Redguard have gods for everything, but each of those gods don't necessarily have any more 'power' than anybody else...

god ≠ power

The Nerevarine didn't die yo... Didn't get the memo?



Yeah. I kinda equate it to perhaps Leki, as one who doesn't have a godlike position but is revered highly regardless. Guess it makes sense for the Protector of Morrowind to be revered as such.

Been around the Cavern of the Incarante lately ? There's plenty of failed Nerevarine wanabee there. They came close enough to fulfill the Prophecy that they ended there, but they failed nonetheless.

There's also a passage of the 36 sermon that basically reads in plain language as 'I'm going to kill Nerevar until he does it right'. which hint that the Nerevarine can be killed - but will come back again, until he accomplishes the prophecy.

simply being incapeable of wearing that damn ring doesnt mean that a random adventurer couldnt possibly have found some other means of accomplishing the same things as the new nerevar

No.

To answer the original question: "Each event is preceded by Prophecy.
But without the hero,
there is no Event."
-Zurin Arctus | the Underking

Seriously.


Meh, no matter what the player choose, the PC is still the Nerevarine.

I think it is wrong to think of Daedra and Aedra as superpowerful creatures or ultimate evil. They are part of the world with roles to fulfill, just like everyone else. They simply act according to their nature. Daedra's activity is balanced out by Aedra 's 'lazyness'. If there were no Aedra or Daedra, Godhead would go completely insane, even more than he already is.

In the end, only because people refer to him as such. But even then, depending on how you look at it, that could be validation enough; check Tiber Septim.

If they die...they aren't the Nerevarine. Check the prophecies and Oblivion: death is not a requirement. As if that could even make sense.