Was it the Van Graffs? or the Brotherhood?

Considering the amount of Energy Weapons the Van Graffs actually have available do they have a factory of some kind?

Also, if there are groups able to produce Energy Weaponry then why is the Brotherhood so controlling? I would of thought that the Brotherhood would actually have means to create more Energy Weapons over groups like the Gun Runners etc.

Are you talking about the caravans in Cass's quest? If so, it was the Van Graffs and Crimson Caravan.

If your talking about other caravans. Then I don't know, but I would assume it was both; though not at the same time. The BOS are known for attacking people for their technology. Their goal is to aquire technology by any means necessary. As for the Van Graffs they're shady and are capable of such atrocities.

I mean the Gun Runner ones, when you talk to the Gun Runner at 188 he mentions someone sophisticated attacked all their Energy Weapon caravans

It is hinted to be the Van Graff's working with the Crimson Caravan. I'm not sure if its ever said outright, but I also highly doubt that it would have been the Brotherhood. They were in retreat from the NCR when the Gunrunner's would have been bringing in Energy Weapons.

How did the Van Graffs get so many Energy Weapons though? do they have factorys?

I think these games need to work on the lore abit.. I mean, I know the Gun Runners can make Energy Weapons but the Van Graffs im not so sure on.

Now that I think about it.. I think the Gun Runners are the only people who actually do make Energy Weapons...

These Van Graffs are essentially one tiny branch of the family. Most of the operation is in Cali, where they have enough weapons and loyal employees to field a small private army. I think the implication is that they have factories back in Cali, and the weapons are just shipped to the Mojave.

I would assume Alexander was referring to the Brotherhood of Steel.

The Crimson Caravan and Van Graffs are working against the Gun Runner's in general. It's not that the Van Graffs just wanted the GR's to stay away from Energy Weapons; they both have an "alliance" against all other caravans, so it's unlikely the Van Graffs would just stop their attacks if the GR's stopped transporting energy weapons.

Secondly, I think the Gun Runner's would put up a damn good fight against the Van Graffs in a fight, if not completely obliterate them. The Gun Runner's have the finest firearms and they're rather clever with protecting their caravans.
To me, it all points to the Brotherhood. No matter what precautions the Gun Runner's would take against attackers, the Brotherhood are the ones who would definitely KEEP trying no matter what, because for them it's not just a matter of business rivalry, but it's their BELIEF that the Gun Runner's shouldn't be allowed to own and trade high tech weaponry.

Problem is that the Brotherhood has been sealed up in that bunker for a long, long time, on lockdown. No attacking anyone for anything.

Hmm, maybe it was Caesers legion targeting energy weapon caravans.. if the NCR's Majove force had lasers & plasmas then the legion would be outclassed... maybe, not sure.

Though he's also not clear on the time frame.

I mean, let's assume every caravan in 2279 got attacked if it had Energy Weapons. It's not ENTIRELY certain they'd dare try again in 2281.
The Van Graffs? The motive seems a bit off. The Van Graffs would want them hindered in general, not just because they're dealing in Energy Weapons. I could be wrong though, maybe this is worth asking J. Sawyer or Avellone.

I honestly believe it was the Van Graffs. They don't really gain much by generally stopping the Gun Runner's business, because they don't deal in normal weapons, thus, the standard Gun Runner's selection isn't competition to them. But they want total monopoly over energy weapon sales, including a desire to have a contract to supply the NCR troops with energy weapons.

This is exactly why I think its the Van Graff's working with the Crimson Caravan. The Crimson Caravan wants to selling weapons, but its difficult when the Gunrunner's are the NCR's main supplier(which is probably CC's goal) which is why they want the Courier to steal their manufacturing process. They also want the Courier to do it quietly so the Gunrunner's and the NCR back west don't learn about it. The Van Graff's would also want to be the only available source of energy weapons in the Mojave.

I'm more inclined to think it was the Van Graffs. I haven't played the first two Fallouts but from FNV I got the impression that the Van Graffs are energy weapon specialists - by attacking only the EW caravans the message the Gun Runners get is "stay out of the energy weapons business". If the Van Graffs just indiscriminately targeted all GR caravans the message the Gun Runners would have gotten instead would have been "someone is out to get us". This way the Van Graffs get to retain their EW monopoly, but don't piss the Gun Runners off so much that the Gun Runners are actively, uhm... gunning for them. The Van Graffs don't stand to gain much from attacking the non-energy gun shipments anyway, since they don't seem to deal in conventional guns and there doesn't seem to be an overlap between users of the two - it seems like you either prefer energy weapons or conventional guns.

I'm not sure the Brotherhood would have had enough intel on which caravans were carrying EW and which weren't. That the attackers were able to identify correctly all the EW-carrying caravans suggests, rather, corporate espionage, which in turn suggests the Van Graffs.

The Brotherhood is weak so it is unlikely they were behind the attacks. The attacks are mostly to have occured a week or a month before the game starts. They were defeated by the NRC way before then. And as I recall there was some enegry weapons left behind. The brotherhood would have taken them even if they were only good for scrap.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer

Well darn it. There goes my carefully constructed argument.

If you're talking about Cass' quest Birds of a Feather or something, you should do it yourself, it's really not that long a quest.
But in short - It was the Van Graff's and the Crimson Caravan that were doing the hits as a way to drive out other caravan companies from the area and keep the Crimson's in the top driving seat, Van Graff's were just in it for the money and possibly discounted supplies.

If you mean Caravans that are carrying/supplying energy weapons then the best chances are it was the Brotherhood since they are getting a free meal in tech form from these caravans. Even with their dwindling number they are still formidable foes because of their superior training, a less than well trained and protected caravan will have no chance againist even the smallest of Brotherhood hit squads.

so stupid if its the Brotherhood, they are idiots in New Vegas... that McNamara fool assumed 2 soliders would easily get to nellis because "Lasers & Power Armor is more than a match".

I can't seriously think it was the BoS, if it was then whoever wrote this needs to stop contradicting the story.

I think the implication is that the Gun Runner's have been getting attacked by the BoS whenever they tried to deal with energy weapons for years, not just recently.
So it's not a matter of would they be attacked NOW, but rather it's happened so many times in the past that they've long given up.

They assumed that anyone who settled at Nellis would only be your average wastelander which isn't any problem for someone in PA with a Laser Rifle. They've been underground for a while and hadn't heard of the Boomers.


He says he "believes the implication is" that the Brotherhood did it, there's uncertainty there so I'm going to stick to my theory for now.

I defy the all mighty Sawyer!

They were sent there to scout the area, how would people in hiding with limited contact with the outside know a group of pyromaniacs with free artillery had settled in an abandoned airport.

How can they contridict a story they are writing