Current State of House Redoran

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:02 pm

They won't keep fighting Helseth forever. And the other houses know that now that Indoril is in ruins and Dres has to rethink its industry, Redoran has become more important to Morrowind.


No. Both Indoril and Redoran are in ruins. Dres has in fact rethought it's industry, and seems to be coming out on top, along with Hlaalu. Telvanni is also gaining influence.
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MARLON JOHNSON
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:28 pm

No. Both Indoril and Redoran are in ruins. Dres has in fact rethought it's industry, and seems to be coming out on top, along with Hlaalu. Telvanni is also gaining influence.

They said that Indoril is in ruins. Redoran is in a spot of trouble, but from the sound of it, its in better shape than Indoril. After all, they're managing to hold off the Nords from retaking Morrowind.
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Teghan Harris
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:16 am

They said that Indoril is in ruins. Redoran is in a spot of trouble, but from the sound of it, its in better shape than Indoril. After all, they're managing to hold off the Nords from retaking Morrowind.


Most of the Redoran's biggest cities were destroyed or occupied in the mean while. There in a very bad position. I doubt a couple of Nordic warlords could retake all of Morrowind. And I'm sure if the were pressed, Hlaalu, Dres and Telvanni could stop them. If a weakened house could slow them down, a strong house or a coalition of two or maybe even threw strong house could easily drive them back.
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Emmie Cate
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:24 pm

Most of the Redoran's biggest cities were destroyed or occupied in the mean while. There in a very bad position. I doubt a couple of Nordic warlords could retake all of Morrowind. And I'm sure if the were pressed, Hlaalu, Dres and Telvanni could stop them. If a weakened house could slow them down, a strong house or a coalition of two or maybe even threw strong house could easily drive them back.


It reminds me of the Ashlanders in some ways; maybe the Redorans won't lose much more ground, but will be almost stagnant. Maybe they're also like the 19th-century Japanese, proud but pretending they can get along without the rest of the world, until they're forced open.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:54 am

Most of the Redoran's biggest cities were destroyed or occupied in the mean while. There in a very bad position. I doubt a couple of Nordic warlords could retake all of Morrowind. And I'm sure if the were pressed, Hlaalu, Dres and Telvanni could stop them. If a weakened house could slow them down, a strong house or a coalition of two or maybe even threw strong house could easily drive them back.

A united Nord army would be able to do considerable damage against the Great Houses. However, the Nords were unlikely to unite in full against a fellow faction of Imperial citizens and now much of Skyrim is in ruins, like morrowind.

However, after the Oblivion crisis Redoran's biggest concern is probably not the Nords, but the other Great Houses. If bethesda's smart, they will include the Empire falling apart, warlords and houses fighting each other and some plot to finish of the Empire in TES: V.
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Prohibited
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:06 pm

Most of the Redoran's biggest cities were destroyed or occupied in the mean while. There in a very bad position. I doubt a couple of Nordic warlords could retake all of Morrowind. And I'm sure if the were pressed, Hlaalu, Dres and Telvanni could stop them. If a weakened house could slow them down, a strong house or a coalition of two or maybe even threw strong house could easily drive them back.

Blacklight is likely under siege, but its still presumably under Redoran control. Redoran and Indoril are the only two houses with extensive experience in war; the other houses have grown to rely on them for protection from the Nords, except for Telvanni. Hlaalu and Dres aren't warrior houses.

If bethesda's smart, they will include the Empire falling apart, warlords and houses fighting each other and some plot to finish of the Empire in TES: V.

I beg to differ in opinion.
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Emma Louise Adams
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:03 pm

Blacklight is likely under siege, but its still presumably under Redoran control. Redoran and Indoril are the only two houses with extensive experience in war; the other houses have grown to rely on them for protection from the Nords, except for Telvanni. Hlaalu and Dres aren't warrior houses.
I beg to differ in opinion.


Being "warriors" doesn't mean crap. That means the few troops they have left are well-trained, and depend on war for status. War is truely won by numbers; of troops, which Dres and Hlaalu have, and of money, which Hlaalu and Dres also have.

I'll use a real example of this. In Ancient Greece, there were two great city-states (well, two that mattered), Sparta and Athens. Sparta was all warrior class, and centered around war, Athens was a democratic money-oriented city-state. First the Persians attacked and we have all seen 300. But they lost. Athens were the ones that beat Persia off.

Then Athens and Sparta went to war. Athens won.

The skill of warriors does not matter a whole lot, no matter what romantic notions stories put into our heads. Wars are won trying to get overwhelming odds over the enemy.
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Sweets Sweets
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:47 am

Being "warriors" doesn't mean crap. That means the few troops they have left are well-trained, and depend on war for status. War is truely won by numbers; of troops, which Dres and Hlaalu have, and of money, which Hlaalu and Dres also have.

They rely on mercenaries. But this time around, they can't hire Nords. And seeing the number of soldiers what were in Ald-ruhn, there are probably a lot more at Blacklight. Not to mention that many of those in Ald-ruhn were probably sent off to fight the Nords. Redoran is almost entirely composed of warriors.


I'll use a real example of this. In Ancient Greece, there were two great city-states (well, two that mattered), Sparta and Athens. Sparta was all warrior class, and centered around war, Athens was a democratic money-oriented city-state. First the Persians attacked and we have all seen 300. But they lost. Athens were the ones that beat Persia off.

Yet the Persians only beat the Spartans because they greatly outnumbered them. If there were more spartans, they wouldn't have won. And I haven't seen 300; I don't watch R-rated movies. Not without being edited at least.

Then Athens and Sparta went to war. Athens won.

Another time Athens and Sparta went to war. Sparta won.

The skill of warriors does not matter a whole lot, no matter what romantic notions stories put into our heads. Wars are won trying to get overwhelming odds over the enemy.


Redoran can muster up at least as many warriors as Dres or Hlaalu. The supply of mercenaries in Morrowind aren't unlimited. And many battles and wars have been won by the smaller army.

PS Advancement Post.
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Wane Peters
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:34 pm

They rely on mercenaries. But this time around, they can't hire Nords. And seeing the number of soldiers what were in Ald-ruhn, there are probably a lot more at Blacklight. Not to mention that many of those in Ald-ruhn were probably sent off to fight the Nords. Redoran is almost entirely composed of warriors.
Yet the Persians only beat the Spartans because they greatly outnumbered them. If there were more spartans, they wouldn't have won. And I haven't seen 300; I don't watch R-rated movies. Not without being edited at least.
Another time Athens and Sparta went to war. Sparta won.
Redoran can muster up at least as many warriors as Dres or Hlaalu. The supply of mercenaries in Morrowind aren't unlimited. And many battles and wars have been won by the smaller army.

PS Advancement Post.


Both Dres and Hlaalu have plenty of there own warriors. We have seen some of them fight. Smaller armies win due to better tactics and better positioning, not better warriors. Again, the romantic notion that the warriors skill matters is false. And why couldn't a side use the draft. Money, resources and how many people wins the war. Smaller armies can win battles, but not wars. Think of almost all wars in history. How many times does the larger, better equiped, better-financed nation lost, unless there was an abolutely brilliant general on the other side or extreme incompetence and corruption leading it.

And the thing about Persia and Sparta is my point. War is more about what is behind the army, rather than the skill of the army.

The skill of the warriors does not matter, unless everything else is equal. But we love the stories of the armies winning up against the odds. But it is just that, against the odds.

And how do you figure that Redoran can muster as many warriors as Dres and Hlaalu. Redoran live in a desert and mountains. Hlaalu and Dres live in fertile lands, with many resources and much greater population.
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Emily Jones
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:18 pm

Being "warriors" doesn't mean crap. That means the few troops they have left are well-trained, and depend on war for status. War is truely won by numbers; of troops, which Dres and Hlaalu have, and of money, which Hlaalu and Dres also have.


"Warriors" means a terrible lot actually. Seeming that Indoril and Redoran's sole duty has been centered around combat for the last few millenia, they're quite good at it. I mean, really good at it, which isn't a fluffy lined notion. Why are there no Hlaalu at Ghostgate? Becuase they're terrible and clumsy warriors. Why did the Daedra focus on Ald'Ruhn and Ghostgate? Becuase warriors are powerful threats.

Hlaalu has mercenary troops. They don't train their own in "great numbers" at all. Dres has always been firm Temple supporters, and that means, by externsion, reliance of Indoril for civil protection sparing their own skills for slavery.

"War is truely won by numbers?" I did not know war had become such a trivial thing! We've been fighting each other for thousands of years, and we still haven't found the holy grail of combat, I doubt you know it.

I'll use a real example of this. In Ancient Greece, there were two great city-states (well, two that mattered), Sparta and Athens. Sparta was all warrior class, and centered around war, Athens was a democratic money-oriented city-state. First the Persians attacked and we have all seen 300. But they lost. Athens were the ones that beat Persia off. T


Meh. We can all go and find accounts of battles that prove our point. Oh well done though, it dosent mean didly squat really. But, on ths topic though, Athens were only able to send Xerxes back home becuase Sparta had laid into him, and guess what? They didn't beat him. Xerxes needed to return to Persia to stop revolts and was assassinated by his vizier.

Then Athens and Sparta went to war. Athens won.


Japan and China went to War. Japan won. But let me use your own definition against you; the Achaemenids went to war against Greece, and Greece won. So really, your argument is a double edged sword.

The skill of warriors does not matter a whole lot, no matter what romantic notions stories put into our heads. Wars are won trying to get overwhelming odds over the enemy.


Overwhelming odds help. Hah, they do. If you're implying that Hlaalu have "overwhelming odds"? Hah. Nope.
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Jose ordaz
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:51 am

Since my fanfic revolves around Redoran, this subject interests me greatly. Does anyone know what happened to Athyn Sarethi? I checked at the Imperial Library but couldn't find out whether or not he survived when Ald'ruhn was destroyed.
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Spaceman
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:18 pm

Lord Hyamentar pretty much said what I was trying to convey.
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naana
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:24 pm

Actually the Hlaalu are quite powerful think about it they have the duke unlimited wealth there is really nothing they could not do.They have the Empire at least in Vvanderfell in the palm of their hands.The Red house is no doubt the weakest house of all they are at the ghost gate because they are expandable.No other house would sacrafice their people for some silly it is honorable to die mentalilty.Instead they gather strength from their members,and wealth.The Red house does not take an interest in their members or their house.This is why it is flawed and it is why they will never be a power house.Like Hlaalu,Telvanni.
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KU Fint
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:28 am

Actually the Hlaalu are quite powerful think about it they have the duke unlimited weath there is really nothing they could not do.They have the Empire at least in Vvanderfell in the palm of their hands.The Red house is no doubt the weakest house of all they are at the ghost gate because they are expandable.No other house would sacrafice their people for some silly it is honorable to die mentalilty.Instead they gather strength from their members,and wealth.The Red house does not take an interest in their members or their house.This is why it is flawed and it is why they will never be a power house.Like Hlaalu,Telvanni.

Their wealth is not unlimited; all the money in the world won't matter if you can't hire enough mercenaries. The Redorans are at Ghostgate because it is their duty to assist the Temple and protect Morrowind. And as far as I know, the Bouyant Armigers, presumably Indorils, are the ones that actually go past Ghostgate or into Molag Amur. And when a bunch of crazy Nords are attacking, the only chance to survive is to fight. The Redorans understand that many of them may have to die in order to save Morrowind. That kind of selflessness is not silly; they're risking their own lives to protect the lives of others and their nation.
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Ashley Campos
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:53 pm

"Warriors" means a terrible lot actually. Seeming that Indoril and Redoran's sole duty has been centered around combat for the last few millenia, they're quite good at it. I mean, really good at it. Why are there no Hlaalu at Ghostgate? Becuase they're terrible and clumsy warriors. Why did the Daedra focus on Ald'Ruhn and Ghostgate? Becuase warriors are powerful threats.

Hlaalu has mercenary troops. They don't train their own in "great numbers" at all. Dres has always been firm Temple supporters, and that means, by externsion, reliance of Indoril for civil protection sparing their own skills for slavery.

"War is truely won by numbers?" I did not know war had become such a trivial thing! We've been fighting each other for thousands of years, and we still haven't found the holy grail of combat, I doubt you know it.
Meh. We can all go and find accounts of battles that prove our point. Oh well done though, it dosent mean didly squat really. But, on ths topic though, Athens were only able to send Xerxes back home becuase Sparta had laid into him, and guess what? They didn't beat him. Xerxes needed to return to Persia to stop revolts and was assassinated by his vizier.
Japan and China went to War. Japan won. Snd let me use your own definition against you; the Achaemenids went to war against Greece, and Greece won.
Overwhelming odds help. Hah, they do. If you're implying that Hlaalu have "overwhelming odds"? Hah. Nope.


The odds can be bumped by great generals, but armies of great warriors doesn't. Well, Redoran did have a great general and leader. Do you know what happened to him? He was killed by the Nerevarine. I always thought they attacked Ald'Ruhn and Ghostgate because they were trying capture Red Mountain. And many including me would say money is the holy grail of war. People have known this for hundreds of years. A strong economy is essential to field a strong army. Many people have come out and said it even. It's not a secret. You can have a under-funded well-trained soldiers and they will lose to a well-funded army of not as well trained soldiers.

I do think Hlaalu has overwhelming odds. They have a strong allys (the Empire and Dres), whom with they control most of the money and resources in Morrowind, in an area with the majority of Morrowind's population, with a strong leader. Redoran is a great House who's capital was destroyed, was losing a war against the Nords before the crises, was in dire straits econimically even during the events of Morrowind, was fanatic to a system which turned out to be lie, barely any resources, their great leader dead. Redoran is pretty much done for. I think it has ceased to be a Great House, and is now just a minor house. It's a shame. I liked Redoran.

But going back to what I was saying before. Does Redoran have the finances to feed as large of an army as Hlaalu? Does it have the finances to equip as large of an army as Hlaalu. Does it have the finances to pay as large of an army as Hlaalu. Money is the key.
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Mylizards Dot com
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:55 am

Ahrum, it is obviously apparent that the Hlaalu have a lot of money. The power of the Imperial Coin is very influential, but when Cyrodiil sneezes, Hlaalu will catch a cold. It may not be wise to remain so dependant on foreign capita for much longer. Hopefully Helseth will see this obvious weaknes and pursue a more Dunmeri-centric future.
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Veronica Martinez
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:24 pm

Ahrum, it is obviously apparent that the Hlaalu have a lot of money. The power of the Imperial Coin is very influential, but when Cyrodiil sneezes, Hlaalu will catch a cold. It may not be wise to remain so dependant on foreign capita for much longer. Hopefully Helseth will see this obvious weaknes and pursue a more Dunmeri-centric future.

This is very true.
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Taylrea Teodor
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:44 pm

The odds can be bumped by great generals, but armies of great warriors doesn't. Well, Redoran did have a great general and leader. Do you know what happened to him? He was killed by the Nerevarine. I always thought they attacked Ald'Ruhn and Ghostgate because they were trying capture Red Mountain. And many including me would say money is the holy grail of war. People have known this for hundreds of years. A strong economy is essential to field a strong army. Many people have come out and said it even. It's not a secret. You can have a under-funded well-trained soldiers and they will lose to a well-funded army of not as well trained soldiers.

But they still (probably) have the Hope of the Redoran. I figure that if it was time for a Hope of the Redoran, this is that time. Besides, they'd fare better than an army of mercenaries led by a businessman.

I do think Hlaalu has overwhelming odds. They have a strong allys (the Empire and Dres), whom with they control most of the money and resources in Morrowind, in an area with the majority of Morrowind's population, with a strong leader. Redoran is a great House who's capital was destroyed, was losing a war against the Nords before the crises, was in dire straits econimically even during the events of Morrowind, was fanatic to a system which turned out to be lie, barely any resources, their great leader dead. Redoran is pretty much done for. I think it has ceased to be a Great House, and is now just a minor house. It's a shame. I liked Redoran.

Hlaalu and Dres would still have to rely on mercenaries; they could only hire as much as they could find. Hired muscle is not an unlimited resource. Not to mention that Redoran still has Blacklight. And we only know that they're "besieged." We don't know if they're actually losing the fight with the Nords. But they're holding up and that's a good sign.

But going back to what I was saying before. Does Redoran have the finances to feed as large of an army as Hlaalu? Does it have the finances to equip as large of an army as Hlaalu. Does it have the finances to pay as large of an army as Hlaalu. Money is the key.

The beauty of Redoran is that they are their own army, and they don't fight for money; they fight for their kin, for their house which they are a part of, and for their ancient duty to protect Morrowind. And I do believe that they have the supplies (or access to them) to fight this war.
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Shelby McDonald
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:18 pm

Their wealth is not unlimited; all the money in the world won't matter if you can't hire enough mercenaries. The Redorans are at Ghostgate because it is their duty to assist the Temple and protect Morrowind. And as far as I know, the Bouyant Armigers, presumably Indorils, are the ones that actually go past Ghostgate or into Molag Amur. And when a bunch of crazy Nords are attacking, the only chance to survive is to fight. The Redorans understand that many of them may have to die in order to save Morrowind. That kind of selflessness is not silly; they're risking their own lives to protect the lives of others and their nation.

Actually it would be more noble to consider the implecations of such acts.Getting your own people slaughtered for "glory"is actuall insanity.If the Red house wants to preform noble acts they should consider things like not mindlessly killing or getting killed by who calls them names or insults the integraty of their less than noble house.And like it or not they are considered expandable.As far as their duties for Morrowind as many times as I played as a Red I did not see these noble acts of mercy or charity.Instead I saw a Great House of ego maniacs.
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Da Missz
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:32 pm

Actually it would be more noble to consider the implecations of such acts.Getting your own people slaughtered for "glory"is actuall insanity.If the Red house wants to preform noble acts they should consider things like not mindlessly killing or getting killed by who calls them names or insults the integraty of their less than noble house.And like it or not they are considered expandable.As far as their duties for Morrowind as many times as I played as a Red I did not see these noble acts of mercy or charity.Instead I saw a Great House of ego maniacs.

The Redorans don't fight for glory. They fight to protect. And die to protect. The Nord invaders understand only one language; violence. The only way to stop them is to fight them off. And all the houses, especially Telvanni and Hlaalu, engage in killing fellow nobles for stupid insults. Except Redoran, instead of hiring an assassin or stabbing them in the back themselves, allow for a fair duel. Of course, Bolvyn Venim wasn't exactly a model Redoran. But every house has a few bad eggs. Hlaalu, Dres, and Telvanni much more than others.

I have played as a Redoran several times. Most of the quests involve rescues, killing monsters that are threatening people, fighting bandits, and dealing with Hlaalu's troublemaking.
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Shae Munro
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:37 am

The Redorans don't fight for glory. They fight to protect. And die to protect. The Nord invaders understand only one language; violence. The only way to stop them is to fight them off. And all the houses, especially Telvanni and Hlaalu, engage in killing fellow nobles for stupid insults. Except Redoran, instead of hiring an assassin or stabbing them in the back themselves, allow for a fair duel. Of course, Bolvyn Venim wasn't exactly a model Redoran. But every house has a few bad eggs. Hlaalu, Dres, and Telvanni much more than others.

I have played as a Redoran several times. Most of the quests involve rescues, killing monsters that are threatening people, fighting bandits, and dealing with Hlaalu's troublemaking.

Yes all of the houses do this but,none of the other houses are quite as snobby and goody two shoes as the Reds.Everything the Reds do is for their ego's,yes fighting,getting killed,saving others,etc...It is ego to these holier than thou fools if the Reds couldn't go around bragging on their foolishness they would probally just sit around the Aid Skar Inn getting drunk.And making up stuff.
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Sharra Llenos
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:32 am

Judging Dunmer by middle-American Protestant standards of morality(thank you Proweler): Class C Level 12 instant phail.
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Greg Cavaliere
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:59 am

Yes all of the houses do this but,none of the other houses are quite as snobby and goody two shoes as the Reds.Everything the Reds do is for their ego's,yes fighting,getting killed,saving others,etc...It is ego to these holier than thou fools if the Reds couldn't go around bragging on their foolishness they would probally just sit around the Aid Skar Inn getting drunk.And making up stuff.


I would hate to bring this back up, but the Telvanni are by far the most 'snottiest'. Redorans are traditionalist, brave and noble. Who's defended Morrowinds borders all these years? That would be Redoran. I would compare them to France during the Great Scramble for Africa, they got alot of territory but most of Frances territory was desert, and most of Redorans territory is hard, barren, and they are forced to be Morrowind Vanguard against all threats from the east. As for their egos, they have saved Morrowinds ass for years, they have the right to have big egos and the favor of the temple, they are out their doing the fighting while everyone else is sitting at home counting their gold.
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Daniel Holgate
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:07 pm

I would hate to bring this back up, but the Telvanni are by far the most 'snottiest'. Redorans are traditionalist, brave and noble. Who's defended Morrowinds borders all these years? That would be Redoran. I would compare them to France during the Great Scramble for Africa, they got alot of territory but most of Frances territory was desert, and most of Redorans territory is hard, barren, and they are forced to be Morrowind Vanguard against all threats from the east. As for their egos, they have saved Morrowinds ass for years, they have the right to have big egos and the favor of the temple, they are out their doing the fighting while everyone else is sitting at home counting their gold.

Yes lets not do this one again Tidus,I am not debating the Reds tradition I am stating their current house,this place is an ego maniacs dream come true.I understand what the Reds were at one time but that time has passed they need real direction and leadership.They have none how it stands.But you can't tell me the Reds think all they do is a bed of roses,because they have "honor"
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Stephanie Valentine
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Yes lets not do this one again Tidus,I am not debating the Reds tradition I am stating their current house,this place is an ego maniacs dream come true.I understand what the Reds were at one time but that time has passed they need real direction and leadership.They have none how it stands.But you can't tell me the Reds think all they do is a bed of roses,because they have "honor"


Do what again? I'm merely stating my opinion, and thats where I leave it. I don't believe the Redoran are the snottiest or snoopiest, or any of that, I mearly point out that they we're dealt a bad hand in terms of land and position, and have done more for Morrowind in the past then most give them credit for. By all rights, they have a reason to think themself's supperior as a house. They we're, after all, willing to fight for their land instead of welcoming in the foreigner's or hiding in some mushroom castles.

I can't say what they think, only what I think.

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Anna Kyselova
 
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