If I'm not mistaken, the word 'ego' is younger than Sigmund Freud. With it's current meaning that is. Pride and Hubris are the natural counterparts of such a people as House Redoran. They are only negative attributes if they get in the way.

The Reds would have done far less for the people of Morrowind then they would have helped,If the Reds were so powerful why don't they just take the Telvanni or Hlaalu lands.There is no hope for the Red's in their current state,The Hlaalu and Telvanni will all but push them out sooner or later.As far as getting dealt a bad hand I think the only reason they survive is because of their terrain.And all of the houses have done great things for Morrowind without the arrogant you owe attitude.

Hence the word maniac at the end.

We are all Telvanni. We all live in houses and don't let people in.

I would like to make a statement concerning House Hlaalu and House Dres' military might. I will paraphrase Machiavelli, author of "The Prince":

Mercenaries will lose battles for you because they are not willing to die for their cause. They will not fight as hard as native soldiers who fight for their families and land. Mercenaries are unreliable and are just as likely to betray you because the enemy has payed them off.

So, Redoran may not have a strong economy, but they have a stronger military than Hlaalu or Dres because they don't hire mercenaries. The point was made earlier that Hlaalu or dres could initiate a draft to bolster their armies. Those houses may have more men in their armies, but they have less soldiers. Whereas the men in Redoran's army are all warriors(that's what they do for a living) The other houses warriors are farmers, merchants, and fisherman etc.

Yes but you must remember that the Hlaalu have more than mere mercs on their side they have the Empire.

However, the empire soldiers have a ton more respect for Reds than they do for Hlaalu

Concerning a comment about Hlaalu and the the Imperials; The Empire did not fight in the civil war. If they did, they'd have lost Morrowind in a instant.

I don't know how Redoran would (or has ever) done anything that has hurt Morrowind, but whatever. As for why hasn't Redoran (or any house for that matter moved in on each other territory) is because House Wars are taken care of by the Morag Tong. The Tribunal Temple forbids House Wars, so they never did, and nor had any other house. Indorial only has been picked apart because it no longer functions as a House, and everything was up for grabs. As for Hlaalu or Telvanni, the only way that will happen is if Redoran ceases to be a Great House, which I doubt unless somthing REALLY major disaster befalls them.

Again, they are warriors, they always have been, they survive because warfare against the Nords and western invaders has traditionally fell to them. To say their terrain is the only reason they have won is silly, because they arn't fond of gurilla warfare, and are more like the legions in which they seem to prefer open battles. They survive because they know how to fight and win.

Redorans service to Morrowind was they have always fought Morrowinds enemys. The same, however, cannot be said of Hlaalu or Telvanni. Each house has indeed contributed to Morrowind, Dres have provided slaves, Hlaalu provided great wealth through the empire, Indoril has always been up for a fight, Telvanni produce some great mages, yes, they all have somthing to contribute, but the Telvanni have always believed themselfs to be superior to everyone, and Hlaalu has a snobbish attitude to. Redoran isn't the only one's who have a rather high idea of themselfs, thats a fact.

Again, we all have our opinons. You don't seem to like Redoran, thats coo, fine by me, I really don't like the Telvanni, but I prefer to base my facts on proof, rather than pure opinion. Well, I've said my peace. I don't want to argue, rather debate, but I'll drop the whole thing if you think I'm just trying to agrivate.

Actually I do like the Redoran,but it is true I like the other houses more only because the Red House seems simplistic on their views of Morrowind it seems to them things are black and white & no room for middle ground.And an air of arrogance I have played the Reds many times.Yet it seemed to me they allowed themselves to be led by a madman.And all these"honorable warriors" were to scared or locked in tradition to do anything about it,it seems like a very cowardly thing to do.And there are battles for land constantly.Caldera ebony mine,Shishi,Oridian,Rethan Manor,etc..And I too enjoy a great debate.Alot of my posts are on the current state of the Reds.

No house has mounted any sort of military movement, like you seemed to be trying to suggest when asking why they hadn't taken land from Hlaalu or Telvanni. House wars are forbidden, land disputes, however, are not. Rethan Manor though, what did it quite have to do with houses fighting over land? Rethan is firmly in Hlaalu turf is it not? As for being led by a mad man, the empire itself did nothing when Pelgius the Mad was in charge, it has nothing to do with cowardice. You respect and follow your leaders no matter how radical or crazy you think them to be. Just like today, say you live in a country who you believe your leader to be crazy, are you going to do something about it? No, does that make you a coward? No, it means your smart enough not to destroy your nation from within. I would draw real life comparisons, but don't want to get this closed for political reasons.

Redoran can't take land from either, because it is not strong enough. House wars happened anyway, and violence frequently broke out, even in the events of Morrowind. I would say slaughtering everyone in a mansion is pretty big. And Pelgius was replaced by his wife as regent, although Redoran's old leader was considered a good one.

Redoran is done for, though. And military might really doesn't matter when other houses control all the food supplies, weapons supplies and almost all other goods.

I never said Redoran could take land, I was merely explaining why they didn't, or wouldn't. As for Pelgius, yes, he was replaced by his wife, but she gradually took control before sending him to the looney bin, no one just up and said 'your out amigo'. Now for house wars, they happened anyway? Enlighten me please, cause I wouldn't want to go on believing something that wasn't true, or at least give me a link to something stating such.

http://www.imperial-library.info/savant/

Thank you for that, though I fail to see exactly where it says house wars continue. It merely states that, in the opinion of the authors, that things could become violent if not for shrewed diplomacy. I don't doubt they would fight, only that their fights are generaly taken care by the Morag Tong, which was set up to handle things so they don't erupt into warfare. I havn't seen anything stating the hostile takeover of one houses land by another in open warfare.

House Wars are just highly regulated and controlled. And we witnessed a couple hostile attempts on land in Morrowind. Morag Tong is an important part of this.

Exactly, thats what I said I believe. To quote myself..



My point that houses we're not engaging in open warfare over land. The Morag Tong is used to prevent war, not to conduct war. I'm pretty sure Houses don't hire assassins so they can claim land, but its more of a way of getting revenge on House so and so cause they did somthing House so and so 2 didn't like.

But all three house were trying for some land grabs in Morrowind. Hlaalu tried to drive Telvanni out of Oridniran and the fight between Telvanni and Redoran at Shishii. And of course the stronghold quests. And the Redoran attack on the Caldera mines.

This argument of Redoran being able to defeat Hlaalu and Dres is foolish. If a House war was to break out it, due to the Empire being weakened or some such, Hlaalu and Dres could probably expect support from what ever Legions remained in Morrowind.

They did pretty well at Shishi. Much better than the Hlaalu did at Odiniran. The Telvanni wizard at shishi only survived because he hid. The other one openly held the Hlaalu off for years. And the Redoran have Marandus.

I don't know, if you talk with the guards and the legion, they show they much prefer Redoran over Hlaalu. And again, the Imperials do not partake or get involved in house wars. So, unless an imperial held place was directly attacked by a great house, there would not be any imperial involvement.

A bit late, but I have to nit-pick: About the bolded part, I get the feeling that you think the duels would somehow be more "honourable" than the assasinations, and that makes sense seen from a European-Western real world point of view, but in Morrowind, assasinations is the honourable way.


If there was to break out a full civil war in Morrowind, then the Empire would interfer and try to bring "peace" to the lands so the important Morrowind trade can continue. They would support Helseth and Hlaalu because they are the ones who rules the country, and if they supported Redoran, they would indirectly support and encourage rebellious forces all over Tamriell. In the Empire's current state, all such threats to (allied) authority would have to taken care of fast and completly, for the Empire is weak enough as it is.


Anyway, on another point:

Is it just me, or does this not recemble the Telvanni attitude of "If you attack someone and survive/steal something and get away then you haven't done anything wrong" very, very much?


And at last, a example that money isn't everything: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crassus#Crassus_in_Syria, one of Rome's richest men. (I don't like how they try to undermine the "molten gold" part's veraciousness, because that's just so cool it must have happened )
Anyway, to the point: Money is one of the most important parts of warfare, in fact, the second most important, but money doesn't matter at all if you're general can't lead his armies. The greater general always wins (:rolleyes:).
However, I do not think it is known which one of House Hlaalu/Dres and Redoran that has the best generals.

No one said Redoran could defeat Hlaalu or Dres, not in their current state anyway. Redoran has been in decline, we can't deny that, but in a war, they have the distinct advantage of being at war with Morrowinds enemies before the rest of Morrowind.

I believe the weakened empire would break their promises and partake in a house war if losing meant having an unfriendly house become dominant. And even if the guards personally prefer Redoran, Hlaalu is Empire friendly.

I don't think the Empire would break the Armistice at all. In fact a weakened Empire needs armistices and treaties to survive. Say, if the Empire broke it's promises, what's to say all the other provinces wouldn't break their own promises to the Empire? There's a saying that helps here; don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.