::scratching head::

No I hardly see even for a user that this is easier than just
1. downloading the original packages for your package (and choosing only what you want).
2. Unzipping them to one folder that is numbered and named.
3. taking out and cleaning any offending esp files then putting them back (possibly redate the esp too).
3b. if necessary rearrange complex archives to be BAIN friendly.
4. Zipping up that archive and copying or moving the archive to BAIN folder.
5. Installing or annealing.

While the BCF might handle simple replacers well it would fall flat with mods with optional (yet named the same) esp files, body mods, or even basic archives that still needed cleaning.
Then what about updating the archive sub-packages? Would you put all those packages back in the data folder to repackage only one update?

With my method you would download the update and only unzip that to the destination sub-package then rezip. Admittedly that could be a pain, but not as much a pain as re-adding all the packages to run BCF again then take those out. See the ting is if you're just going to have to ever re-add the packages to the BAIN folder then why ever take them out?

I know I'm no lazy ... but the reason I'm no lazy is I don't want more work later.

I vaguely recall Wrye adding this as a request.

This is the deal breaker. I won't say how long it took me to create the weapons archive (partially because I myself don't know exactly) but it was upwards of one and a half hours. I mean, if you want to do it yourself in that time, be my guest, but honestly I assumed people would be disinclined to repeat work that has already been done for them. *Shrug*

Well now maybe I'm miss understanding something. Point 3a above is rarely that necessary and it is usually only means removing the level of a 'data' folder and placing the meshes/textures as the top level in the sub-package.

But there are worse examples ... can BCF handle packages that even I find extremely annoying like Roberts Male replacer? Here is how I have the BAIN archive for it:

   ├[00 Roberts Male v4 Core]   ├[01 Beautiful People Compatibility]   ├[05 Optional Idles]   ├[06 Human Head]   ├[07 Orc Head]   ├[08 Better Necklines]   ├[10 Average nvde BASE]   ├[11 Average Cothed - Pants 1]   ├[11 Average Cothed - Pants 2]   ├[11 Average Cothed - Pants 3]   ├[20 Muscular nvde BASE]   ├[21 Muscular Clothed - Pants 1]   ├[21 Muscular Clothed - Pants 2]   ├[21 Muscular Clothed - Pants 3]   ├[21 Muscular Clothed - Pants 4]   ├[21 Muscular Clothed - Pants 5]   ├[22 Muscular Sandals]   ├[30 Slender nvde BASE]   ├[31 Slender Clothed - Pants 1]   ├[31 Slender Clothed - Pants 2]   ├[31 Slender Clothed - Pants 3]   ├[40 Breeze Defined Male Body - nvde]   ├[41 Breeze Defined Male Body - clothed]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Breton]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Dark Seducer]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Darkelf]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Dremora]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Golden Saint]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Highelf]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Imperial]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Nords]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Orcs]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Redgaurds]   ├[41 BreezeVascularBody - Woodelf]   ├[45 GhogielDefinedMaps for Roberts Male]   ├[46 Durza Roberts male v4 - less muscular for Slender]   ├[50 Roberts Average Stock Clothes and Armor]   ├[50 Roberts Muscular Stock Clothes and Armor]   ├[51 Roberts Muscular FCOM Armor]

That was admittedly a pain and not much fun. Could you set up BCF to automate that? Because the variances of body meshes were held in arcane locations.

Otherwise - then what about other packages that merely have two variants on the same esp - can you set it uo to fish out the differences and place them into differently names sub-packages?
An example of this (not even that complex) is the mod Tantrivaylia Which had the annoying Data folder and another folder called Alternate ESPs.

Here is how I rearranged that:

It would seem then that even if you could do these things that one mess up in how it is run and you would have the mod user complaining to you as if you were the mod author themselves.

As I understand it, BCF isn't something that automates BAIN creation so much as it's a file that Bash parses to repackage source archives into a structure specified by the creator of the BCF.

You, Psymon, could make a BCF of your Robert's BAIN package and send it to me, and all I'd need to do in addition to downloading the source mods (which I'd need to do anyhow) is activate your BCF. Bash does all the work, and I don't have to spend the time in front of file explorer duplicating your organization efforts. In addition, if you make any changes to any of the source files - cleaning esps, fixing mesh/texture paths, editing readme files - Bash includes the changed files in the BCF.

Think of it as anologous to the omod conversion data folder, but way more advanced in that it does final file sorting and stuff for you.

And since we're talking about BAINs, maybe someone can answer a question for me. In my quest for a 100% BAIN re-install of Oblivion, I was planning to make packages for all my OBSE plugins. However, the first one I've made is rejected by Bash as being an unrecognized structure. Can anyone tell me why? It's laid out exactly the same way all my other - accepted - packages are.

Games\Oblivion Mods\Bash Installers\Oblivion Stutter Remover v4.1 - BAIN   │   └[00 Core]	   │	   └[obse]		   │		   ├[Docs]		   │   │		   │   └[OBSE Plugins]		   │	   │		   │	   └sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.txt		   └[plugins]			   │			   ├[ComponentDLLs]			   │   │			   │   ├BorlndMM.dll			   │   └debugMM.dll			   ├sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.dll			   └sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.ini

edit: Hmm. After playing around with the structure a bit (I moved Docs into \00 Core instead of within \obse), Bash recognizes the file in the docs folder. That implies to me that Bash doesn't recognize the \obse directory as a valid subdirectory of \oblivion\data. Can anyone confirm this?

Wrye was very vocal in having it so that BAIN does not install OBSE plugins or shaders.

I think it was even that those were designed to be ignored. He considered OBSE plugins somehow more serious to install and because OBMM could do shaders management that he did not want to recreate the wheel. I've personally not encountered an OBSE plugins that was dire if not handled just so, but then I've not used many.

Who knows what Pacific Morrowind has in mind. Maybe OBSE pluggins will be there in the future.

I use OBMM for Shaders (all that new OBGE stuff), Pluggins, and bsa management ... and the most important part - drag and drop file management.

So then a BCF will seek out in the source packages specific files? What if the files does not exist in the source package due to mistake?

OBSE plugin dlls, unlike other types of Oblivion mods, can include arbitrary (potentially evil) code not necessarily related to Oblivion. It's comparable to downloading and running an executable. I presume that Wrye figures that this constitutes a level of security risk that his tools should not automate. My guess would be that he blocks all .dll and .exe files from being installed by BAIN files.

Ah, okay. I missed that part, and it doesn't specifically mention it in the docs. BAIN happily moves over other non-vanilla folders, like _tejon and Streamline. I guess it's OBMM for OBSE then. Or manual, like I've always done.

I use OBMM for Shaders (all that new OBGE stuff), Pluggins, and bsa management ... and the most important part - drag and drop file management.

If by that you mean quick load order sorting, yeah, I'll probably do the same. Ctrl-up for 5 minutes is not my idea of fun.

So then a BCF will seek out in the source packages specific files? What if the files does not exist in the source package due to mistake?

If the files aren't in the source package(s), they'll be put into the BCF for distribution. Like I mentioned, if you make changes to a file like cleaning or redating, Bash considers it a new file and packs it into the BCF. That's one potential problem I see with BCFs - someone could flip out because their esp is modified and distributed without permission...

This http://lolcat.com/pics/threadlovercat.jpgand needs a bump.

It would be a shame if so much useful information would be lost due to the low "retention" of this forum. Already most of my bookmarked threads from last year is gone (not due to new forums).

No don't sticky thread!!!

When this one reaches its end I will reassemble the most salient parts and format it better.
better links, better tutorials, more examples, etc.

seriously - promise to do that.

------

Petrus - check this out for broken bookmarks: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081464-for-those-who-have-bookmarks-which-no-longer-work/

Ah..sorry for sticking my whiskers in, but you better hurry before it's purged. My own thread "400 mods and no crashes" where I had gatheres most of my accumulated wisdom is already gone. :cold:
It would have made a great reference for me when I'm building up my new game.

Thanks for that link. Amazing that they had to redo the URLs as well...

OK point taken - but when was the last activity on your thread?

Don't they wait like 6 months for no activity before purging? Has that changed? Where do I find that info because the info in the sticky threads is no longer valid on may points after this change.

Are you gonna help me write a section or two? What I see is reserving about 5 entries then rewritting. there is not that much to transfer over and I will ditch all the colors and rely only on font type, size and formatting.

Anyone who wants to complain about the new forums - there are about 4 active threads full of complains on the community forum:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081472-forum-update-discussion/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081469-bug-report-thread/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081383-forum-skins/
this one has a few suggestions of what to do:
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1081516-forum-style-alterations/

Gosh!

How many posts do we have to make to get this wonderful sounding new one

Btw, preferred your old picture - what made you change it?

Hey you guys are not pushing the limit just to get me to do that are you?

It is 200 still as far as I can tell.

I lack the caffeine and energy to even think about that -- maybe even till next week. So ... Stop it!

I will be calling on you Surazal - any chance that on the Nexus DL page for BOSS masterlist manager that you can add as an optional to download the 2007 word macro for these File Folder Tree readouts?

That picture was always meant to be temporary and I never meant to keep it much less for a year and a half. Bored of it.

I may change it again to another Austin Spare sketch ... or maybe Stanislav Szukalski.
I just don't get the cult of the cat thing.

Good point...I thought the purge date was from when the thread was started, but come to think of it it's more logical to purge based on latest activity.




I'll try to help, but I will be away from my computer for one week starting tomorrow.
I'm pretty up-to-date on all the various Landscape replacers, so that is probably my best subject for helping with.

Posted as requested.

A different version from the one you are using - just copy the document to your trusted location (where BOMM is) and open it. Instead of pasting File Folder Tree output, you tell it where the text file is (I always keep in the same place with the same file name). To run it, click the button.

I haven't documented the macro, so if you think I need to include more information in the upload, let me know what should be explained and I will update it.

Well this is such 'a small group of people would find interesting' thing - I'm not sure.

I was going to ask you to post the code on new thread instead of cutting and pasting so like with this one if you want to update you can and then I thought well why not have it as download.

I dunno maybe a link to posts here or a short cut and past of a post here with link to File Tree program too.

Felt I may have been too short with FrodoDarkLord and wondering if he'd be interested in attempting to write something about how to use BAIN conversion files.

Anyway - need shut eye now. Still not happy with Avatar.

Thanks man

[edit] no more posts - seriously.

Heres a start on one I see you haven't tackled yet.
Free free to add to it and include it in your new line-up if you want. Would like to see what you might add to a comp like this.
It is a pretty decent size comp, size wise.
I realize there are more out there but have not had the time to track them all down.

I get bored of seeing the same map loop all the time when firing up the game. I switch them every so often.
***Comments

+Map Loop Replacers Compilation+

***00 Vanilla Map Loop and Title Music.
00 Vanilla Map Loop and Title Music.

***01 Choose one. Music may or may not be included.
01 Dramatic Main Menu Video
01 Fiery Oblivion Video Map Loop Replacement -8441
01 Map Loop and Oblivion Logo Replacement Video by Averam -13972
01 Menu Video Replacement Scenery -2799
01 SunriseSunset-22305
01 The Glory of Cyrodiil -15914
01 The Heart of the Dead Opening Movies-21176
01 Whisper Main Menu v2 0 -29154

***02 Edgeless Oblivion Title (map loop)
02 Edgeless Oblivion Title -4904

Metallicow

Psymon, regarding your DarnUI package, there are two mods I think are missing:

1. The Nice One's Map Marker Overhaul. I guess this one was not startedt or only just started when you wrote your post, though.

2. A map replacer that also showed new lands added by mods, like Stirk and a more detailed Elseweyr. Don't remember its name, though.

I'm especially interested in your toughts on adding MMO to DarnUI, Kyoma's Map Additions and the Dark UI Supplemental Pack. Any incompatibilities?

Personally, I think MMO is better suited to an OBMM installation because it applies your preferences to the associated configuration file. With WB, you would need to manually edit the file with your preferences after the installation.

Agreed - I use OBMM for installing theNiceOne's mods due to the advanced ini scripting and the way it sets it up.

Yeah that DarN package shows its age.

I have tended to now tuck new maps in with packages that also add the newer regions. So maps that show new roads get tucked in with my BAIN package of New Roads and Bridges (even though none are up to date with that mod). And Maps that show Elsweyr are tucked in with that BAIN package.

My thinking being that the the DarN Package is for vanilla landcapes and that these are for extensions - so add those to the extensions.

You could add more map markers though without MMO control what is the point. MMO is comprehensive and handles most things except the map.

====================================

Ok so I spent a good portion of time last night writing the opening posts for a new thread and really getting into how to make it more instructional with links galore. Probably the first three posts will be rudimentary for those who know the why of installers and how to make BAIN packages, but will be very helpful for those that do not. Each section will hopefully build upon the previous.

I'm wondering about a new name for the thread - Custom Bain Projects doesn't seem right if the thread will also contain info about other installers and be a resource for noobs and those wanting to rebuild their installs.

"Psymon says - look at my giant BAIN"?

• BAIN Explained
  
• BAIN Best Practices
  
• An Introduction to BAIN Projects
  
• BAIN for Beginners and Experts

I recall you mentioning using a sky replacer that was designed for Fallout 3 and that you just used the loose texture(s).

OK well there it goes - now I'm up against the wall to write the next thread.

Agghh.

Please no one open a new thread I promise to have the next one up in a day or two maybe three.

For some reason my gut is telling me to not put BAIN in the title - I'm sure I'll get over it.

And also people - if you are not happy with the forum changes - please continue to let them know about it. I feel like a broken record on the Community Discussion forum.

back to work ...