If it's just textures, "optimization" would only consist of size reducing the .dds files down to 256x256 or smaller. Provided the storage path to the textures isn't changed the meshes don't even need to be touched and you'd just drop the replacements over the RAEVWD install.

Huh OK well I've done that.

The thing is - I'm not using a city overhaul - yet something (probably in a BSA I'm just not seeing with my eyes) is putting up the regular textures.

So I'll come up on the city and part will be dark and part regular - frustrating.

Wonder if it is UL II? The talos bridge especially does that.

It seems to to be the kind of thing where loose data files are competing with BSA files.

It's not the UL as that doesn't change any of the vanilla textures. Most likely something you have floating around in another location that you've just forgotten about.

It's always been my experience that loose files trump BSAs, but apparently I'm unique in that regard. So you could pop open OBMM, go to utilities, archive invalidation, and tell it to reset the BSA timestamps and see what you get, because that would more or less guarantee all your loose files had newer dates.

Thanks for this tremendous thread - it has helped and encouraged me to come to grips with WB and BAIN.

So I thought I understood the basics and decided to attempt to build my own World Texture Bain. Pretty much followed your example and created a 7z file that I copied into Bash Installers.

I was expecting to see a list of sub-packages, but none were there. I tried a range of other things and nothing worked - it seems, from what I have read, that WB should automatically detect that the package has a complex structure (because of all the numbered sub-folders containing meshes and textures) - but this does not seem to happen.

How do I get the Sub-Packages feature to work? Am I missing something really obvious?

Many thanks for any help.

How did you pack it with 7-zip? If you created an archive of the folder that you have your sub-directories in, it won't work. You have to create an archive of the sub-packages themselves. You need to make sure that in the archive, you immediately have the sub-packages, not another folder first.

Each subpackage has to be created by you as if each were matched to the directory of the data folder.
Think of them as each a separate package that are collected together.

While BAIN will recognize a single package that has data included as the top folder it will not (to my knowledge) recognize many sub-packages that have an extra data folder above the meshes, sounds, and textures.
Each sub-folder should have inside it the meshes and textures folders.

This means that about 80% of mods need to be repackaged. I do this all the time.
What I've found really helpful - if you have the disc space - is to lay out all the folders like the the final package wil be and leave them like that. So my World Textures Compilation-BAIN folder on my back up drive is titled just like that. Then I number and label each folder under that 10 ....11 ... 15 ....20 ... etc alphebetical works too, but not as controlled.

Then whenever I create the 7zip I just highlight which subfloders in that main folder and it will automatically name the archive 'World Textures Compilation-BAIN'.

Hard to tell from your post but it does sound like you have to many levels in the subpackages as frodo is guessing at.

I selected all the folders, right-click and Add to Archive - the structure shows only the sub-folders. I also tried copying the source files to make a project, and this is also seen as a Simple structure (in this case I have a folder containing all the others as sub-folders).

As far as I know, this is what I have done - except that I was not using WB to create the 7z file - my layout (as you described) was external to WB. I must be missing something really basic

I use 7zip to create 7z files - not sure where you got the idea that I use Wrye bash.

What I'm saying is that I have a completely different hard drive where each bain package is laid out in the format of the bain packages. I do not assemble bain packages in the bash installers folder.

I'll send you a PM with a link to a bain package as I create them.

Many thanks for taking the time to try and help me. Your file, of course, worked perfectly and now am even more confused

As far as I can tell my 7-Zip file is in the correct format - except that it did not default to the -BAIN suffix when I created it (which is why I thought you were using WB to create it).

Within the folder I created for this, I have my folders structured as 10, 15, 20, etc. The subfolders within these are Meshes and Textures with the relevant files and sub-folders within them. To create the 7-Zip file, I highlighted all the folders in my "World Texture Replacer" folder, Right-Click and used the 7-Zip "Add to archive..." option which defaults to "World Texture Replacer.7z" (no -BAIN suffix). I then copied this to my "Wrye Mods\Bash Installers" folder (used Bash.ini to change the path so that it is not in my Oblivion folder).

I am using WB 276 and Python 2.5 (installed using the EXE provided on Nexus) and am running Windows 7 64-bit with UAC turned off and as an administrator.

I just don't know what to try next - so any ideas will be extremely welcome and appreciated.

Edit: I also have a folder called "Docs" with some Readme files in it (just in case this has any impact
Edit 2: Just moved the Docs folder to one of the others and it works - Must decide how I will deal with the Readmes based on this

So by that last edit does this mean that the entire package now works? coudn't tell.

I make my own docs folder for each subfolder and then in that docs folder I put another folder depending upon type of mod: City mods, Body mods, combat mods, etc. That way when looking at a readme in the docs folder I'm not hit with 500 readmes to sort through. Also if a readme is ever named 'readme' it gets renamed to 'whatever the mod is called_readme'.

I add the -BAIN suffix at the end. Just to distinguish from my repackaging from the original.

I'm on Vista 64 using python 2.6.

If the package is still not working ...

I recently posted in the wrye bash thread about how version 276 was not installing certain files (mostly LOD meshes), try reverting back to 275 and if it then works go and post a detailed message in the wrye bash forums.

I think that due to the high level of bug reporting that I do - that some now see me as the boy who cried wolf.

Many thanks for the help you have already given.

I noticed that if a BAIN package has not been installed, you can't read the documentation through WB (unless I have missed something basic). Also, I didn't like the idea of hundreds of documents in my Oblivion Data directory (Data\docs).

My solution to this was to create a Project in "Bash Installers" called "Mod Documentation". Within "Mod Documentation", I have a separate folder for each BAIN package (eg "World Texture Replacer") that contains all the associated ReadMe files, pictures, shortcuts to the original websites, etc).

Now when in WB and I want to see documentation, I Right-Click on "Mod Documentation" and select Open - I must admit, I quite like this approach.

I am also seeking advice and guidance...

• In order to make tracking the installation order (for a clean build) easy to follow, I have numbered the BAIN packages (eg "30 World Texture Replacer").
  Will this convention cause WB to make any automatic assumptions regarding the install order or will I still need to use the "Move to" command?
  
• Do you have any guidance on a recommended installation sequence?

Many thanks for any help and suggestions.

You didn't tell me if you got your package that you were working on to work finally.

as for questions:

No I don't believe that numbering the bain packages themselves will work in auto-sorting them. that was only implemented for subpackages if I recall correctly. The only thing that was implemented (although I don't use it and I'm not sure it stuck in subsequent versions is creating package.txt file that could be read in the bottom pane. Tell you what a great example of how Wrye implemented this can still be found http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=22170. That link has mods that wrye repackaged himself.

Actually BAIN makes install order a lot less important because you can right click on any package and change the install order and it will shuffle replacers and other files for you. Some say OBMM is better and BAIN is only great for replacers - well I like replacers and I like being able to shuffle them.

Still having a logic to install order is very important just that with BAIN you do not have to actually install in any sequence. Just that after the packages are in you can then arrange the order you want and it will shuffle all files as you instruct it to. Genius stuff by Wrye I tell you - like all the rest of WB really. You can tell he is a fan of the game and of tinkering with it. Why Bethesda doesn't hire him to work on creating public releases of their launcher/CS is beyond me.

Anyway not sure I can tell you the definitive install order but http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1065266&view=findpost&p=15502609 by drag0ntamer I attempted to discuss how to test different levels of instruction.

If it is any help and if you can make sense of it here is my bain packages list (and by extension my install order):

Bain Packages:000 - DarkDarn_160-BAIN.7z (4F5943F5)001 - Unofficial Patches Compilation-BAIN.7z (230F5EF9)002 - SoundsCompilation-BAIN.7z (246CDEB1)003 - World Textures Compilation-BAIN.7z (13B287B3)004 - All Natural-BAIN.7z (AB600C8B)005 - Sky Compilation-BAIN.7z (8FEE36BE)006 - Enhanced Weather-BAIN.7z (774735A5)007 - Environments Compilation-BAIN.7z (8BDD68DA)008 - Other Replacers-BAIN.7z (61570972)009 - DLCOfficialMods-BAIN.7z (6195B9DE)010 - SM Plugin Refurbishes-BAIN.7z (A5AE3399)011 - Fran 4.5X for FCOM-BAIN.7z (1376F51B)012 - OOO_1.34.XForFCOM.7z (84497E2D)013 - MMM_3.7.X-BAIN.7z (1C4D92A2)014 - OWC_1.085b-BAIN.7z (0C244201)015 - FCOM Supplements-BAIN.7z (E1AFDB44)016 - FCOM_Convergence_Beta9.9-BAIN.7z (BAD9768C)017 - ufcom.7z (62B956CB)018 - FCOM Archery-beta-BAIN.7z (6CCC65EF)019 - Armamentarium Complete-BAIN.7z (F64CB9C9)020 - TamrielTravellers-BAIN.7z (8EF850A0)021 - TNR and NPC New Clothes-BAIN.7z (714BF0F6)022 - Horse Compilation-BAIN.7z (BD31B3B5)023 - World TexturesAddendum-BAIN.7z (0D654F5B)024 - LOD Compilation-BAIN.7z (16705CA7)025 - Ampols Textures-BAIN.7z (D19DCB3E)026 - MALO-BAIN.7z (1BC69142)027 - Cobl- BAIN.7z (62B67B45)028 - Books-BAIN.7z (F4A7F7DE)029 - CURP-BAIN.7z (894C221E)030 - _Mergers-BAIN.7z (B4B297E3)031 - Vanilla Redux-BAIN.7z (A103CD73)032 - Choices and Consequences-BAIN.7z (8ED5AEFD)033 - Fort Akatosh + GoC Redux-BAIN.7z (49E0FDDB)034 - Kragenirs Death Quest-BAIN.7z (5BB92BE1)035 - Black Horse Courier-BAIN.7z (9ED44D06)036 - Bartholm-BAIN.7z (76847EAC)037 - Feudal Empire-BAIN.7z (23687B46)038 - TheElderCouncil-BAIN.7z (CDA188E0)039 - Cyrodiil NPC Remodeling-BAIN.7z (7E128283)040 - Kingdom of Almar-BAIN.7z (3A7700B4)041 - Kvatch Aftermath-BAIN.7z (5BE77261)042 - AyliedSteps-BAIN.7z (643A4BC4)043 - Quest for the Elements-BAIN.7z (90247C57)044 - Mighty Umbra-BAIN.7z (FC22BAE8)045 - Verona House Bloodlines-BAIN.7z (D0BA8AB6)046 - OriginMagesGuild-BAIN.7z (750FF65F)047 - Mannimarco Compilation-BAIN.7z (6BEE1259)048 - TheNecromancer-BAIN.7z (EB1F4619)049 - Simyaz Quests-BAIN.7z (B4F59206)050 - Naked Nord-BAIN.7z (2D253EE9)051 - Dragons-BAIN.7z (45FB99C5)052 - A Saints Tale-BAIN.7z (EEA124D4)053 - CastleRavenpride-BAIN.7z (E8F15FEB)054 - Sentient Weapon II-BAIN.7z (B811FEDF)055 - PainKiller Weapon Quests-BAIN.7z (3431D96A)056 - Ivellon-BAIN.7z (BD21A955)057 - Treasure Maps-BAIN.7z (6FC60869)058 - Gates of Asgard-BAIN.7z (F661675D)059 - Thieves Quests-BAIN.7z (7D372944)060 - Heart of the Dead-BAIN.7z (BA216F44)061 - Return of Shadows-BAIN.7z (1780CE76)062 - Werewolf Compilation-BAIN.7z (437128D5)063 - Paladin Mods-BAIN.7z (20B4D8E8)064 - Horror Mods-BAIN.7z (FB5D53C3)065 - Lost Paladins-BAIN.7z (FA7A0847)066 - Blood and Mud-BAIN.7z (286151B9)067 - Lost  Spires-BAIN.7z (AB70C310)068 - Et in Arkay Ego-BAIN.7z (B7AC5BDB)069 - Enhanced Daedric Invasion-BAIN.7z (96FEEF47)070 - Quest_Delayers-25859.zip (3B56D53F)071 - Homes-BAIN.7z (272973AB)072 - Castles-BAIN.7z (9DCEF7B6)073 - Dungeons Project-BAIN.7z (DBC3E81D)074 - Frostcrag Reborn-BAIN.7z (A9835361)075 - Skyrim Improved-BAIN.7z (59BEC7A0)076 - Valenwood Improved-BAIN.7z (4831C472)077 - Unique Landscapes Compilation-BAIN.7z (1DD23F60)078 - Elsweyr-Anequina-BAIN.7z (8E787F42)079 - LOD_Compatibility_1_0-27023.7z (D5DBDE84)080 - Old Crow-BAIN.7z (ED905507)081 - Villages-BAIN.7z (AEBEE654)082 - Sutch Reborn-BAIN.7z (93FD8217)083 - Sutch Reborn8.1-bain.7z (F27596F4)084 - Stirk-BAIN.7z (A2A7CA42)085 - Silgrad Tower-Forgotten Garden-BAIN.7z (7BA26851)086 - Windfall-BAIN.7z (235FC5EB)087 - Cybiades-BAIN.7z (4738C4D4)088 - Kvatch Rebuilt-BAIN.7z (26DEB8FE)089 - RAEVWD-BAIN.7z (1317587E)090 - Magic Compilation I-BAIN.7z (F8230434)091 - Mighty Magic-BAIN.7z (75287662)092 - Supreme Magicka-BAIN.7z (8860F2D6)093 - LAME-BAIN.7z (371BAB83)094 - Magic Compilation II-BAIN.7z (5ED0EBDC)095 - Dark Knight Magic-BAIN.7z (F2B7E4C5)096 - Unique Magic Compilation-BAIN.7z (B9ED6B8F)097 - Sigil Stones-BAIN.7z (BD4AA66C)098 - Vows_and_Covenants-20736.7z (31FAA438)099 - Region Rumare-BAIN.7z (4A8713DE)100 - Better Cities Support Mods-BAIN.7z (B8EAD248)101 - City Mods-BAIN.7z (733A98DE)102 - Open Cities-BAIN.7z (7A95C860)103 - Really Open Cities-BAIN.7z (681E8479)104 - ExtinguishtheLights-BAIN.7z (934956ED)105 - Animated_Window_Lighting_System_-_Meshes_v5-1-5-19628.7z (04E69801)106 - AWLS_-_Brumbek_Mixed_Textures_v5-1-2-19628.7z (0D97C8A1)107 - Lighting Compilation-BAIN.7z (C9C086ED)108 - New Roads and Bridges-BAIN.7z (98F8C13E)109 - RobertsMalev4-BAIN.7z (88C638F4)110 - Demon Race-BAIN.7z (E1F7DB45)111 - Race Balancing Project10.5-BAIN.7z (85D5F867)112 - Race Balancing Project 10,5 - Installation Files Complete.7z (C6DE68EF)113 - RBP Variations-BAIN.7z (6B228C1E)114 - Body Compilation Base-BAIN.7z (8F94BC7C)115 - bgIntegration-BAIN.7z (0F88D1C6)116 - Roberts Female-BAIN.7z (8CA25EE3)117 - EVE Compilation-BAIN.7z (513A8316)118 - HGEC Textures-BAIN.7z (48DEF360)119 - CorePC- Clothing Mods-BAIN.7z (15B21FA5)120 - Animations and Idles-BAIN.7z (2BF84249)121 - Companion Control-BAIN.7z (F3C53498)122 - Companions-BAIN.7z (3BAEF937)123 - Sound Sets_PC-BAIN.7z (64E765AD)124 - Sound Sets_Companion-BAIN.7z (66B4E5D3)125 - Power Attack+Diverse Voices-BAIN.7z (6DB683CA)126 - Wrye Mods-BAIN.7z (4CEC37A4)127 - Oblivifall-BAIN.7z (353B36AA)128 - Alternate Starts-BAIN.7z (9D92FEA4)129 - Leveling Compilation-BAIN.7z (D5D28999)130 - Stealth Compilation-BAIN.7z (FF9AE8EE)131 - Realism Compilation-BAIN.7z (D084AD6C)132 - KuerteeMods-BAIN.7z (B352BC54)133 - Tejon Mods-BAIN.7z (D1DF68F4)134 - Optimizers-BAIN.7z (77A38150)135 - DukePatrick Quests-BAIN.7z (155421FB)136 - DP_Survival-Health Mods-BAIN.7z (8A63C694)137 - DP_Combat Mods-BAIN.7z (2E4B3CF4)138 - Duke Patrick Trainers-BAIN.7z (6C4BDA8D)139 - Combat Compilation-BAIN.7z (A1DC8343)140 - Combat Animations-BAIN.7z (6BE0BC31)141 - Scaling Mods-BAIN.7z (93508907)142 - Super_Hotkeys_054-22326.zip (88D642E8)143 - Super_Hotkeys_053-22326.zip (16530903)144 - Really_Immersive_Messages_V1-32-27720.zip (F7411CC1)145 - Visual Enhancments-BAIN.7z (F183F8AC)146 - Travelers & More People-BAIN.7z (551762A2)147 - Creatures & NPCs Alive-BAIN.7z (444C2A80)148 - Life_Detected_80pak-25204.zip (98BAC2D5)149 - HUD Mods-BAIN.7z (057A02E8)150 - Weapon Mods Quest-BAIN.7z (4E252F67)151 - Armor & Weapon Mods - Buy-BAIN.7z (B83194F3)152 - CEO_Main_1_1-26479.7z (16700CAE)153 - Hotkey Compilation-BAIN.7z (E76D88DA)154 - Multiple_Enchantments_V4_7-9423.zip (C04EF303)155 - Chameleon_Cloak-23788.zip (57E557BE)156 - PRP_main_file-20807.rar (55312046)157 - Enhanced_Key_Functionality-27719.zip (BE7AF0BA)158 - Oblivion_Tournament_v2_1_2-28190.7z (D3F37764)159 - ScrollYesOrNo_1_0-28210.rar (451ADD8A)160 - Auriels Retreat-BAIN.7z (34630316)161 - The_Forbidden_Secret-28525.rar (353E8245)162 - Merge Project External-BAIN.7z (A2B380D9)163 - Merge Project Internal to Cities.7z (7D22D554)164 - ImpeREAL_IC-BAIN.7z (ED0D2026)165 - Oblivion Realm Mods-BAIN.7z (A2A88132)166 - Better_Cities_4-4-1-16513.7z (82168F9B)167 - Better_Cities_Resources_4-3-2-16513.7z (39D2548F)168 - Sailing and Boating-BAIN.7z (139F4D70)169 - AFK_PrayerIdles_1-29038.rar (948F12A9)170 - Tantrivalia-BAIN.7z (27B457C3)171 - Dwemer Technology-BAIN.7z (CB7CC8C5)172 - Dragon Paths-BAIN.7z (39580B0E)173 - Daggerfall_NPCs-29161.7z (C1C27F9D)174 - Improved Infrastructure-BAIN.7z (7908F1C6)175 - Merge Project External - No patches.7z (5DE1A33E)176 - Tamriel Houses-BAIN.7z (0F308C2A)177 - Tamriel Houses Other-BAIN.7z (4DF3B742)178 - CLShade Mods-BAIN.7z (F359E6D4)179 - ==Last==180 - WAC-BAIN.7z (BCE82F94)181 - MainMenuVideoReplacements-BAIN.7z (306F12C5)182 - music-24160.rar (9FC93098)183 - CaveExterior_Re-PyFFI.7z (C5B475B3)184 - CyrodiilUpgradeOverhaul-BAIN.7z (01CC96F6)185 - SM_TIE4MODS-BAIN.7z (A3D5FB9B)186 - TIE_In_1_2_beta_3-18071.7z (23623475)187 - UnnecessaryViolence-BAIN.7z (832269C8)188 - Merged Maps-BAIN.7z (91C414B7)189 - Hackdirt-BAIN.7z (21155933)

Mind you that many are not installed (the list packages does not tell you what is installed versus not installed). Some I have just archived, some I plan to use, some I just wanted to test and see. Near the end is where you see less packages and mods that are installed.

I did two edits on my previous post: The first said I had a docs folder and the second to say that when I got rid of it, it all started working as expected - so yes, it is working properly now

Many thanks for your package list - it will be very useful as a guide, although I understand your point regarding the re-ordering - very powerful stuff indeed.

In my preparation for the rebuild, I plan to use OBMM for anything that requires scripting (eg external mods dependent installs, complex installs that rename the files that get installed, etc). For the rest, I plan to build BAIN packages so I can take advantage of WB's greater sophistication in restoring what was overwritten when you remove something. This approach should reduce what I have in OBMM, which is getting very slow at starting up because of all the OMODs.

Any comments will be very welcome.

Back again I'm afraid.

So here is my new problem...

• I built my World Texture Replacer BAIN package.
  
• Deactivated all the replaced OMODs using OBMM
  
• Installed the BAIN package

My problem is that it did not install all the files that it should have - in particular, I noticed that none of the Landscape textures been to have been installed. There are many files listed under the "Missing" tab and the icon shows Red (with a + sign).

I have tried using the "Install missing" option, but nothing I do seems to get the files installed (checked the Oblivion Data directory to establish their absence).

I have tried the Install Last option as well, but it does not seem to make any difference.

Any thoughts as to what might be going wrong or what I can do to try an correct the problem?

EDIT: I converted the package to a project as a way of checking the package and found that not all the folders were present - am now extrating manually to see if it is the archive or something WB is doing.

EDIT 2: Extracting the archive normally works perfectly. It looks like WB is unable to extract the archive correctly - any ideas?

As I posted above version 276 of Wrye Bash gave me grief. Very similar issue with me.

Please try reverting back to 275 and give it a go (as simple as extracting the 275 archive in Oblivion folder). If that works then report this in the Wrye Bash thread.

I guess before doing that you could try installing (even if it says red) then uninstalling then reinstalling - that has worked sometimes, but my own experience tells me that it is something that is up with 276. If you can report to them what kind of files are not installing that would be helpful too.

as for my packages - kind of messy - I should probably clear some stuff out.

For many so called scripted installs I've went ahead and used OBMM then culled out the inastalled mods and BAINed them. FRANS for fcom is one such example. I do use OBMM for OBSE plugins, complex, ini installs, and shaders. That is about it. Mostly because even if an omod is available - often the esp may still need cleaning and if I'm gonna do that might as well repackage.

Many thanks for responding.

I downloaded and installed v275 (had to change the INI file as well - there are some features that are not avilable in 275).

Unfortunately, it still doesn't work

I had a smaller BAIN package which I created and that works perfectly (on both versions).

Could it be something to do with the size or content of the more complex structure? My package does include the original full QTP3. I did try creating a BAIN package with the same folder structure, but only included the QTP3 Full elements and got the same problem.

This is what my QTP3 Only folder structure looks like...

Quarls Texture Pack III   │   ├[10 Architecture - Quarls III Full]   │   │   │   ├[Meshes]   │   │   │   │   │   └[architecture]   │   │       │   │   │       ├[anvil]   │   │       ├[basemantsections]   │   │       ├[bravil]   │   │       ├[bruma]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   └[brumaledgeset]   │   │       ├[castle]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   ├[anvil]   │   │       │   ├[bravil]   │   │       │   ├[bruma]   │   │       │   ├[leyawiin]   │   │       │   └[skingrad]   │   │       ├[castleinterior]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   ├[narrowsections]   │   │       │   └[towersmall]   │   │       ├[cheydinhal]   │   │       ├[chorrol]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   └[interior]   │   │       ├[docks]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   └[anvil]   │   │       ├[farmhouse]   │   │       ├[imperialcity]   │   │       ├[leyawiin]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   └[exterior]   │   │       ├[lowerclass]   │   │       ├[priory]   │   │       ├[sidewalk]   │   │       ├[skingrad]   │   │       └[stonewall]   │   │           │   │   │           └[bravil]   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       ├[architecture]   │       │   │   │       │   ├[anvil]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[anvilinterior]   │       │   ├[arena]   │       │   ├[basemantsections]   │       │   ├[bravil]   │       │   ├[bruma]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[brumawallset]   │       │   │   └[interioronly]   │       │   ├[castle]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[anvil]   │       │   │   └[cheydinhal]   │       │   ├[castleinterior]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[narrowhalls]   │       │   │   └[towers]   │       │   ├[cathedral]   │       │   ├[cemetery]   │       │   ├[cheydinhal]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[interior]   │       │   ├[chorrol]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[interior]   │       │   ├[daedricstatues]   │       │   ├[doorstones]   │       │   ├[farmhouse]   │       │   ├[godstatues]   │       │   ├[imperialcity]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[icbasemantset]   │       │   │   └[icinterior]   │       │   ├[leyawiin]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[interior]   │       │   ├[lowerclass]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[lowinterior]   │       │   ├[priory]   │       │   ├[ships]   │       │   ├[sidewalk]   │       │   ├[skingrad]   │       │   ├[statue]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[bravil]   │       │   │   └[kvatchstatue]   │       │   ├[stonewall]   │       │   │   │   │       │   │   └[bravil]   │       │   └[tents]   │       ├[Qarl]   │       └[wood]   ├[20 Clutter - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       └[clutter]   │           │   │           ├[barset]   │           ├[castleinterior]   │           ├[fightersguild]   │           ├[lowerclass]   │           ├[mageguild]   │           ├[metalsmith]   │           ├[middleclass]   │           ├[upperclass]   │           └[vinyard]   ├[30 Landscape - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       ├[landscape]   │       ├[plants]   │       └[sky]   ├[40 Rocks - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   ├[Meshes]   │   │   │   │   │   └[rocks]   │   │       │   │   │       ├[ColovianHighlands]   │   │       └[JeralMountains]   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       └[rocks]   │           │   │           ├[underwater]   │           └[westweald]   ├[50 Dungeon Base - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   ├[Meshes]   │   │   │   │   │   └[dungeons]   │   │       │   │   │       ├[Chargen]   │   │       ├[fortruins]   │   │       │   │   │   │       │   ├[castle]   │   │       │   │   │   │   │       │   │   ├[exterior]   │   │       │   │   ├[ruinwalls]   │   │       │   │   └[stonerubble]   │   │       │   └[exterior]   │   │       │       │   │   │       │       ├[castle]   │   │       │       └[ruins]   │   │       └[Misc]   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       └[dungeons]   │           │   │           ├[chargen]   │           ├[fortruins]   │           │   │   │           │   ├[dungeon]   │           │   ├[exterior]   │           │   ├[runestonesixterior]   │           │   └[sancretor]   │           └[misc]   ├[60 Ayleid Ruins - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       └[Dungeons]   │           │   │           └[ayleidruins]   ├[70 Caves - QTP III Full]   │   │   │   ├[Meshes]   │   │   │   │   │   └[Dungeons]   │   │       │   │   │       └[caves]   │   │           │   │   │           └[exterior]   │   └[Textures]   │       │   │       └[Dungeons]   │           │   │           └[caves]   └[80 Sewers - QTP III Full]       │       ├[Meshes]       │   │       │   └[Dungeons]       │       │       │       └[sewers]       └[Textures]           │           └[Dungeons]               │               └[sewers]

Folder 30 is one of the folders that WB seems to ignore.

Any further thoughts?

I found out what the problem was - mainly as a result of including the folder structure in my last post.

Some of the folder names had a "long hyphen" rather than the default one (probably as a result of the cut & paste construction from web pages). I just did a test with the QTP3 version and used the Unpack to project to test my theory.

I am in the process of rebuilding the World Replacer BAIN archive and expect it to work properly now. I need to find your post regarding WB 276 to decide whether I should stay with 275 or not. Although, it appears that 256 is now listed as an old version on Nexus - perhaps the problem you mentioned was severe enough to withdraw the 276 release.

My faith in WB is restored again Will have to be careful where I get my hyphens from in the future

Did you create that flowchart by hand or is there some arcane command that you used to print that out?

Good luck.

No - Used a little program called "File Folder Tree" Great for getting a view of a folder structure and communicating it.

I am now in full swing moving stuff from OBMM to WB - just love the way it figures out what needs to be restored when you deactivate a mod.

I learned a tremendous amount from your World Texture Replacers posting - thanks very much for taking the time to document the work you did. I found that the 7z file becomes so huge and takes forever to update or change within WB. This is the approach I used to deal with this...

• I split the BAIN package into its component mods and built archives for each of them
  
• I maintained the folder numbering and structure within each component archive so it is still easy to see which are "choices" and which ones are options.
  
• I created a dummy archive that I could use as a group heading to help me identify these "virtual packages" and keep the components grouped together.

Now as I add to the World Texture Replacers, it means I don't have to wait ages for the archive to be created - I simply create a new archive with appropriate folder numbering and move it to my "virtual" group. It looks like this...

Bain Packages:000 - ==Body Mods==.7z (00000000)001 - Roberts Female.7z (8CA25EE3)002 - Mod Documentation (149DC76D)003 - ==World Texture Replacers==.7z (00000000)004 - Qarls Texture Pack III.7z (E7F6CB02)005 - PYFFI Optimized QTP3 Meshes - Fixed v1-0.7z (8A16159E)006 - Qarls Texture Pack III Redimized v1-0.7z (7B1A013D)007 - QTP3 Custom Road Texture and More v1-0.7z (E7892C6B)008 - Bomret's Texture Pack - Shivering Isles v1-0.7z (56F2143E)009 - Road, Inn and Shop Signs.7z (93861F5C)010 - Rainbows in Tamriel v3-0.7z (92FDA667)011 - ==Quests==.7z (00000000)012 - Daggerfall Memories - Cybiades v2-1.7z (4738C4D4)013 - Tantrivaylia v0.99.7z (8507B98E)014 - ==Last==

Not much there yet, but at least it has given me an approach for my migration. I am also thinking of creating a new separation for Roads to allow increased flexibility (although the author of ATP Roads and Cobblestones says that it is NOT compatible with QTP 3 - not quite sure why that should be the case).

I have just upgraded to WB 277 and all seems well.

Hope this was of interest.

Yeah I initially had worked with smaller packages but after I got everything set and then went as far as splitting up types of textures ... architecture, landscape, caves, dungeons, ruins, etc from each texture overhaul I then split those apart and culled out the duplicates and arranged them in order.

Really the only reason I then compiled them into what is now a 7.5 gig (compressed) archive is simply because I try to minimize the number of BAIN packages (easier on the eye and takes full advantage of the sub-package feature.

With all my bain packages opening the bain tab takes no longer than 1.5 minutes. One secret is to compress them set to fast and non-solid. That makes the BAIN tab perform faster. Now compressing that archive takes longer, but really I don't update it much (just a couple of times in the last 6 months).

as far as ATP roads not being compatible that, I believe, is an aesthetic call. Hard to believe that texture replacers that just retexture existing things (no new meshes) would be incompatible.

and you are welcome. Maybe with that program http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/File-Management/File-Folder-Tree-Viewer.shtml (corrent one right?) I'd post more BAIN package ideas - I got kind of burnt out typing all that. This would be another way of illustrating this so thanks.

Yes - that's the one - glad you find it useful.

At the moment I am changing things a lot as build up the choices I never considered having before - perhaps I will recombine them when it stabilizes.

I have just built a BAIN package that includes all NPC Generator mods (Crowded Cities, Tamriel Travellers, etc). It actually works quite nicely - and it was a challenge to my OBMM script habit to work out something easy for TT - so a good learning exercise.

The reason I did this one ealy on, is because my game is freezing up pretty quickly. I have established that if I remove all the Road NPC generators then the game works for much longer, but I really like these mods so I am experimenting with combinations. Also, even with all of them turned off, I still freeze - just takes longer before it happens. This makes me think that they exacerbate an existing problem rather than cause it - I live in hope.

Yeah crowded roads variations has caused me problems.

OK before sleep here is an attempt to use that program to illustrate a bain package, let's see if this makes any sense posted:

___Oblivion-Work\_OBL-TempWorking\Custom BAIN Projects\Travelers & More People-BAIN   │   ├[10 Crowded Cities]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[More People]   ├[15 MoDem City Life]   │   │   │   ├[Docs]   │   │   │   │   │   └[More People]   │   ├[meshes]   │   │   │   │   │   └[characters]   │   │       │   │   │       └[hair]   │   ├[sound]   │   │   │   │   │   └[voice]   │   │       │   │   │       └[moDem's City Life.esp]   │   │           │   │   │           ├[Argonian Child]   │   │           │   │   │   │           │   ├[F]   │   │           │   └[M]   │   │           ├[Breton Child]   │   │           │   │   │   │           │   └[M]   │   │           ├[High Elf Child]   │   │           │   │   │   │           │   ├[F]   │   │           │   └[M]   │   │           ├[Imperial Child]   │   │           │   │   │   │           │   ├[F]   │   │           │   └[M]   │   │           ├[Nord Child]   │   │           │   │   │   │           │   ├[F]   │   │           │   └[M]   │   │           └[Redguard Child]   │   │               │   │   │               ├[F]   │   │               └[M]   │   └[textures]   │       │   │       └[characters]   │           │   │           └[hair]   ├[16 MoDem's City Life esp fixed]   ├[20 Oblivion Alive - German]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[More People]   ├[35 Heroes of Cyrodiil]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[36 Heroes of Cyrodiil Merged]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[40 Immersive Travelers]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[45 Crowded Roads Advanced]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[46 Crowded Roads Advanced Flavors]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[50 Crowded Roads Revisisted]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[51 Crowded Roads Revisisted Spawn rates]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[55 Crowded Roads Revamped]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[56 Crowded Roads Revamped Names]   │   │   │   ├[Bash patches]   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[60 Crowded Roads+Immersive Travllers]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[60 Heroes of Cyrodiil + Immeresive Travelers]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[60 Heroes of Cyrodiil+Crowded Roads Revamped]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[60 Heroes of Cyrodiil+Immersive+Crowded Roads Revamped]   │   │   │   └[Docs]   │       │   │       └[Travellers and Encounters]   ├[Docs]   │   │   │   └[Travellers and Encounters]   └[_Source]

All the places where it states Mod + Mod are mergers actually with Gecko.
So the final package being a merger of Heroes of Cyrodiil + Immersive Travelers + Crowded Roads Revamped.

CCR is by the way considered the best of the random roads encounters mods.
Heroes and Immersive place people if I remember right.

Makes sense to me - found it easier to read by cutting and pasting into WordPad and then NotePad

Looks quite different from my version...

NPC Generators      10 10Travellers 1.26   10 10Travellers Old Balance   11 Crowded Roads 3 Flavors 1.5 Default Spawn Rate   11 Crowded Roads 3 Flavors 1.5 Spawn Rate 15   11 Crowded Roads 3 Flavors 1.5 Spawn Rate 7   12 Crowded Roads Revamped 2.0   20 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Core (SI Version)   21 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Default   21 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 for MMM   21 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 for OOO   22 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Items Default (NPC)   22 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Items Unscaled   22 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Items Vendor   23 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Items COBL   24 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Flaming Death ON   25 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Faction Protection Default (ON)   25 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 Faction Protection for MMM OFF   26 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 SI Faction Protection Default (ON)   26 Tamriel Travellers 1.39 SI Faction Protection for MMM (ON)   30 Crowded Cities 1.2 Fewer People   30 Crowded Cities 1.2 More People   31 Extended Chorrol 1.0   32 Extended Imperial City 1.0   33 Extended Skingrad 1.0   34 Cyrodiil Travel Services 1.3   40 CW Imperial Legion v1.1   41 CW Knights of the Nine v1.2   42 Rumple Mod v0.4

Tried to make it so I could remember what my options were (hence the "Default").

BTW, is CCR CRowded Roads Revamped or do you mean your merged version (or something else)?

I like TT because the "pets" make me laugh.

Edit:
Updated the list to correct some errors.

CCR is crowded roads revamped.