They have all the spells in the game, yes. The problem comes when...you see, there are three effects in my spell but I only have two hands to dual wield with.

And that's why I'm pissed. They should care in a game where they claim to allow you to play however you want.

I think complaining about what you want in a game, or from something being cut is completely acceptable. I do it constantly with Skyrim.

For everyone saying, "Stop complaining no one is making you buy the game" etc. Think of this situation for the new Battlefield 3 (I know its a different game, but it proves my point): With Battlefield 3 there are many concerns about the consoles getting screwed with only 24 players per game, and the PC getting full 64 per game. When asked why this was, the devs and producers told the press that the PC players were COMPLAINING about the lack of attention the PC community was getting in previous Battlefield installments (ie. Battlefield bad company 1 and 2). They also mentioned, "We have not heard any complaints from the console community." You can look at any aticle on the web, just search google, for clarification. I will not post any specifics because its literally spammed all over the net.

My point being, that complaining is acceptable and so maybe we can be heard, and or the next instillation of TES after Skyrim will include what we hold dear to us. So complaining should be praised. If you still think complaining is a waste of time, go tell that to the console community of the upcoming Battlefield 3 game and see what they will do to you. Warning ahead of time, you might get MASSIVELY flammed :cryvaultboy:

Yes, but there this day only, A LOT of complaining has been going on (mainly no arena). I don't want to read about a bunch, and I mean a BUNCH of complaints about the same thing on the forums.

Then don't read them if you know what your getting into. Hopefully a dev or Hines, or even Howard himself will see the slew of complaints on the same subject and think about what fans REALLY WANT.

EXAMPLE: I would give up all the salmon and bees in the skyrim world to have spell creation back. :sadvaultboy:

Yeah, they should include a watered down, half-assed version of every feature the video game industry saw.

You can play however you want, nobody said it will be unique and fun though.

Then don't read them if you know what your getting into. Hopefully a dev or Hines, or even Howard himself will see the slew of complaints on the same subject and think about what fans REALLY WANT.

EXAMPLE: I would give up all the salmon and bees in the skyrim world to have spell creation back. :sadvaultboy:

I think complaining about what you want in a game, or from something being cut is completely acceptable. I do it constantly with Skyrim.

For everyone saying, "Stop complaining no one is making you buy the game" etc. Think of this situation for the new Battlefield 3 (I know its a different game, but it proves my point): With Battlefield 3 there are many concerns about the consoles getting screwed with only 24 players per game, and the PC getting full 64 per game. When asked why this was, the devs and producers told the press that the PC players were COMPLAINING about the lack of attention the PC community was getting in previous Battlefield installments (ie. Battlefield bad company 1 and 2). They also mentioned, "We have not heard any complaints from the console community." You can look at any aticle on the web, just search google, for clarification. I will not post any specifics because its literally spammed all over the net.

My point being, that complaining is acceptable and so maybe we can be heard, and or the next instillation of TES after Skyrim will include what we hold dear to us. So complaining should be praised. If you still think complaining is a waste of time, go tell that to the console community of the upcoming Battlefield 3 game and see what they will do to you. Warning ahead of time, you might get MASSIVELY flammed :cryvaultboy:

Losing builds=inexcusable.

I would forsake marrige for seperate armor.

The new options allow for all new builds that weren't even possible in Morrowind.

Three damage spell, useful against any enemy. can be tweaked for variables, and optimised for effect/magicka cost ratio. Can be used with sword and shield at almost no disadvantage.

One element at a time, choose the right one, both for enemy resistance and new secondary effect. Want two elements? Make the tactical choice between two spells, or one spell and a weapon. Can't be optimised for casting cost.

Some people think the second option is dumbing down. That is their opinion, and everyone has a right to their opinion. What they don't have a right to do, is tell me I want an action game instead of an rpg, presumably because I can't handle the complexity ( btw, I play Rolemaster ) because I prefer the second option.

Watered down is better than nothing. Infact that's what I'm getting with SK. In OB it had a skill and perks. Now they watered it down so it'll probably be as static as running and jumping. Great, I can kill a rabbit with my fists, but a dragon is out of my league and I can never get better at punching.

It seems the only reason punching is still allowed is so there can be bar fights.

In morrowind I killed a god/fake god with my fists. In Sk, I can beat up the local drunk for looking at me the wrong way. Hth is hella watered down. I wanted hth to be improved like all the other combat options. With it's own perks. They could have made it something really special!

But they didnt. And I'm upset. I still intend to fight a dragon with my fists. But now instead of it being fun - as in training hard so that eventually I can even take down a dragon with my bare fists - it'll be a gimmicky bar fight with a dragon. And I hate saying something is a gimmick. But reducing hth so it can only be effective in a bar? It's a low blow for me.

I'm sorry, but that's my opinion.

The new options allow for all new builds that weren't even possible in Morrowind.

Off-topic: I'd be more concerned with origin and its EULA...

On-topic: Complaints are fine, I only posted this as I saw about 6 threads about the confirmed removal of arenas on the first page. I agree voicing an opinion is good and it can get us heard about the changes we dislike, but (as already stated) having the "OMG Skyrim is teh svckzors" cause they removed something doesn't help our points being validated.

As with my first post Bethesda makes the game new everytime, they want each game to be unique. Somethings will be new and somethings will be left behind. It's part of the creation process. With new mechanics, old mechanics may just will not work well and balance correctly.

Actually I'm curious how many games in a "series" has kept everything from a previous installment? Anyone got an example?

Actually I'm curious how many games in a "series" has kept everything from a previous installment? Anyone got an example?

I totally agree. It doesn't bother me since I have NEVER used hand to hand, but I can see that for someone who uses it as their main fighting skill that it would be terrible. There was no reason to get rid of Hand to Hand except to make room for other skills. Which makes no sense. They could have kept Mysticism, Acrobatics and Hand to Hand and all the archetypes would be balanced.

The complaining about cut content is getting rather out of hand. Just because there was something in a previous game doesn't mean it can be in the next game. It comes down to one simple fact. Cost and development time. The cost of the Elder Scrolls game has to be massive based on the amount of people working on it and the amount of time it takes to develop it.

Todd has stated every time a ES game is created, they start with a blank slate. So every time the create a new project the engine has to be overhauled (as to keep with the generation) and that alone takes a significant amount of time. (Don't say graphics don't matter) After that (and during that development) art style is developed as with the content that will actually be in the game. Everything that is put into Skyrim is remade from scratch. So every quest line, every piece of armor, every weapon, etc. has to be redone. To incorporate everything from the older games and also adding the new things isn't possible within a timely manner. In the business there is a finite amount of time a project can continue before the funds for development are gone. There is a point when they have to say hey we cant add anything else.

Personally there are things I will miss, But the fact is to have a NEW game, things will have to go.

The team had a vision to make a new game with certain features and story lines, Reimplementing old stuff is second to the current ambitions.

I still think Skyrim is going to be a fun game to play, but then again I view it as NEW game that is not Oblivion or Morrowind.

And that's why I'm pissed. They should care in a game where they claim to allow you to play however you want.