[REL] Cyrodiil Economic Overhaul : IV - Oblivion

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:26 am

I'm still having load order and crash issues that may or may not be linked to CEO (its complex and I don't want to assume its CEO causing trouble because I know its not the *only* issue in my mod list at the moment) but the lastest fix version I was testing DID seem to include merchant gold changing.

Might have been OOO causing it, though. I *thought* that living economy was an addon for OOO but that may have changed with one of the updates.

edit: Confirmed. Merchant gold does change in the latest release without OOO. My CTD's on save also stopped when I uninstalled OOO and WarCry.

It wasn't an exhaustive set of tests, but the CTD's my be caused by some incompatibility with OOO.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:29 am

Thanks for the report; do you know if you're using the 1.2 patch for CEO? Just to confirm the issue is therein

Beyond that, any other problems? I haven't hit any myself, but if you've found some, please let me know.

The first part of Taxes on Homes is done, but I'm trying to work out how to integrate it without too-many issues: on the one hand, having to go and pay Taxes very 7 days is quite boring, but would be the easiest way to integrate it (with the player going to the office of Imperial Commerce, and choosing 'Pay Taxes'); obviously the days can be changed.

Once that is done, I am going to try for the Horse costs. What I'm thinking is disable the Player's Last Ridden Horse when in the Town/City, and not get it back until an amount has been paid to the Stable Keeper (X * Days in town, with a full-day even if you don't use it (like the Horse Merchant is ripping you off/similar to some parking-garages in RL)).

From there, the next job will be identifying Merchant Types, and having individual merchant Gold Boosts based upon that (which should be relatively straightforwards, since I just need to check a few suitable Quests (to improve need for some items), and the items the Player is buying).

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:54 am

Thanks for the report; do you know if you're using the 1.2 patch for CEO? Just to confirm the issue is therein

Beyond that, any other problems? I haven't hit any myself, but if you've found some, please let me know.

The first part of Taxes on Homes is done, but I'm trying to work out how to integrate it without too-many issues: on the one hand, having to go and pay Taxes very 7 days is quite boring, but would be the easiest way to integrate it (with the player going to the office of Imperial Commerce, and choosing 'Pay Taxes'); obviously the days can be changed.

what about adding activator to the houses or somewhere in the city that act as a mailbox of sorts, so every 7 days one would just have to go to the "mailbox" and drop off the taxes?

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:58 am

I'm still having load order and crash issues that may or may not be linked to CEO (its complex and I don't want to assume its CEO causing trouble because I know its not the *only* issue in my mod list at the moment) but the lastest fix version I was testing DID seem to include merchant gold changing.

Might have been OOO causing it, though. I *thought* that living economy was an addon for OOO but that may have changed with one of the updates.

edit: Confirmed. Merchant gold does change in the latest release without OOO. My CTD's on save also stopped when I uninstalled OOO and WarCry.

It wasn't an exhaustive set of tests, but the CTD's my be caused by some incompatibility with OOO.

You might try to install OOO version that doesn't add LE to OOO. The omod-ready OOO has a script to prompt you not to use LE(unless its omod installation script is lying).

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Hi,
This is an awesome mod, great work. I have a few suggestions/concerns/bugs.

It would be nice if instead of your salary/pension suddenly appearing in your inventory every Loredas, you either had to "go" to person X or person X showed up at you. In my particular case, it would help if their was a different person X for each organization. Also, you might want to check your salary script because I apparently make 870,000 or so septims a week! Not that I'm complaining but it's rather inconvenient getting my gold to the bank when it weighs 4 times what you can possibly carry! (Direct Deposit maybe? :wink:

) I had to turn off weighted gold because of this, and that's actually one of the things that made me try the mod in the first place

(.

Also, sometimes when I'm dealing with merchants it says merchant Y has 23,987 septims so I sell them a 1500 septim item, which goes fine-but then the list indicates that that person is paying 0 for all further items.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:23 pm

Can you give any specific merchants for this issue, please? I can't seem to replicate it, so it might be linked to only a few.

On the Pensions/Salary. Could you type this into the console?

Show ZACEOPensionAndSalaryQuest.SalaryToBePaid

And see what it says? Then, if it isn't '0', type :

Set ZACEOPensionAndSalaryQuest.SalaryToBePaid to 0

Auto-payment will be in the next release; not sure about collecting it yet (but shouldn't be too hard

)

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:00 am

Yup- its the CTD fix 2 esp I'm using.

I also double checked: I have OOO 1.34 beta (required for FCOM) and it does NOT include Living Economy by default. So CTD fix 2 esp does include merchant gold changing and whatever the conflict is with OOO it's not with an embedded version of LE.

Disabling either OOO or CEO fixes my fairly consistent CTD's on save- any save: full saves, quick saves, and autosaves on changing cells. :shrug: I've looked at the CEO scripts and I have yet to gain any insight on why that might be happening. I have not cracked open OOO to at it, yet, though.

It also happens whether I have FCOM running - even an OOO only FCOM - or not. If OOO is running the CTD's happen.

Next I'll try disabling all my other mods and running ONLY OOO and CEO to see if its some 3rd mod interacting with them that's at fault. You never know...

edit: wOOt!!!

The game ran fine with only OOO and CEO, so I followed my next hunch and it turned out to be correct:

I use a mod called Menu Time to simulate the passage of time while in menu mode. It'll run fine with OOO or CEO, but not both. When I disabled it the CTD on save vanished.

So while this is far from an exhaustive test, it seems to me that the only conditions under which I consistently get CTD's on save with CEO and OOO is when Menu Time is also running.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:53 am

Thank-you CLShade, your research is very helpful, especially as I don't use that mod (I do use FCOM, though); If you get a chance, would you mind looking into what might be the conflict? It might be a day or so until I have the chance.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:01 am

Can you give any specific merchants for this issue, please? I can't seem to replicate it, so it might be linked to only a few.

On the Pensions/Salary. Could you type this into the console?

Show ZACEOPensionAndSalaryQuest.SalaryToBePaid

And see what it says? Then, if it isn't '0', type :

Set ZACEOPensionAndSalaryQuest.SalaryToBePaid to 0

Auto-payment will be in the next release; not sure about collecting it yet (but shouldn't be too hard

)

It was Lelles in Anvil, but it turned out to be a one time thing, and the money thing must be a different mod as when I typed the code, it said that it was an 'undefined object'.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:20 pm

Apologies for the delay in response.

I am hoping I have finally resovled the CTD issue, or at the least confined it to only when activating containers (which is what I'm going to be testing today). I've done this by altering the Scripts, and removing the area-Script-Effect which was being used to apply tokens, and am instead using GetCrosshairRef. My belief is that the Script Effect is the cause of the CTDs.

I've also added another optional module, CDM's 'Simplified Mercantile'. I believe there are other Mods which work very similarly, but since CDM already helped me, it seemed the obvious thing to ask him. It basically works by using the Gold spent/earned, and calculating points based on this. Once enough points have been earned, the Player Levels Up their Mercantile, and the value is increased.
By default the value is : (( PlayerMercantile * 2) * [Value:1000] ). [Value:] can be changed via the ini file, to make it easier/harder to earn money (with this, Level 10 to Level 11, for example, is ((10 * 2 )*1000 ):20000, which is quite significant, and hopefully not too-unbalancing.
Gold Spent contributes 1/4 of the value to points: so if you spent 100 gold, you'd get 25 points. Gold Earned contibutes 1/2 to the value to points: so if you earned 100 gold, you'd get 50 points.

I've also implemented the auto/manual Payment of Salaries/Pension. First you set if you want Auto Payment or not. We then check if you have a bank account. If you have a bank account, all of your Salary/Pension is automatically paid directly into the Account when it is due. If not, one of two things happen: either the money goes directly to the Player, wherever they are (assuming Auto Payment is 'On'), or the Money is put aside, and the Player must collect it from one of three people: Raminus at the MG; Oreyn at the FG; or Vinicia at the Office of Imperial Commerce, for the Imperial Pension.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:12 pm

Hi,

With the latest release of http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=25078 I made a change which makes it very easy for other OBSE-dependant mods to add gold and still stay compatible with GoldAdjustment. So it would be nice if you considered adding this to CEO.

What you need to do, is to add the following line to any part of your script that adds gold to the player (player.AddItem ....):

RunScriptLine "Set GoldAdjustment.disabled to 1"

This effectively disables GoldAdjustment's adjustment of received gold for the next second. It will not make your mod dependent on GoldAdjustment in any way.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:11 pm

That's awesome TheNiceOne

I've been playing for a few days now, and haven't seemed to hit any major crashes; not had a chance to check out the Guild Salaries yet (I'm trying to play 'naturally') but everything is looking good for 1.3 to be CTD free

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:36 am

That's awesome TheNiceOne

I've been playing for a few days now, and haven't seemed to hit any major crashes; not had a chance to check out the Guild Salaries yet (I'm trying to play 'naturally') but everything is looking good for 1.3 to be CTD free

BTW, have you managed to update the prices of the player's items as the merchant's barter gold goes down yet, or is only the merchant's displayed barter gold updated?

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:51 pm

Posting to remember to download the mod.

Looks cool.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:33 pm

BTW, have you managed to update the prices of the player's items as the merchant's barter gold goes down yet, or is only the merchant's displayed barter gold updated?

Right now it's just the barter gold; but the buy/sell box works correctly.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:20 pm

At first, i should to say, CEO is remarkable plugin. Saensland, thank you for your work!
So, qet the affair. I'm not very well at English, so excuse me for any mistakes, please.

Yup- its the CTD fix 2 esp I'm using...
....
So while this is far from an exhaustive test, it seems to me that the only conditions under which I consistently get CTD's on save with CEO and OOO is when Menu Time is also running.

Interesting. I've had the same bugs (CTD, save crashes and "nps-hobbits") with different configuration and different systems but which were free of Menu Time mod.
Oh, I've used main file and the last fix (uploading from 17.08.09).

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:13 pm

Thanks for the response

I believe I've identified the problem; I'll try and upload a CTD Fix 3.esp later, which should finally resolve those issues (I've had no problems yet, so fingers crossed

).

Hobbit-NPCs was 'intentional'. I had it as a quick test of when the token was added, and forgot to remove it

Edit:
Done. New .esp file (CTD Fix 3) is now available from here : http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26479
What I've basically done is to remove the wide-area Spell, and add the token's directly on interaction, which seems to have resolved the issue. I've not yet factored in TNO's command for Gold Adjustment, but will do in the next release. Hopefully this will be an end to the annoying CTDs

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:26 am

I just tried the mod and did a quick shake down on its functions. First off I run 1.2.0416 no SI installed lots of mods apprx. 165. I loaded late in the order just before my bashed patch. I am using the CTD Fix 3 and no problems were noted. So far so it seems the SI code is cleanly seperated from what I have seen. I use the mod Storage Sacks so I added a new sack and called it "Coin Purse" I could easily transfer coins in and out with no inconsistiencies noted. However when I talked to a "Money Changer" (err. teller, I agree please change the name for immersion reasons). The coins in the "coin purse" were not identified so the mod identified my coin talley was not correct and promptly replaced just the missing coins but also doubled the total amount of gold leaving an incoirrect balance. I assume this is correct as you probably did not write code to track inventory in Storage Sacks. However it is nice to know if the talley is off it corrects the coins automatically. It would be very nice if there was a way to add a "coin purse" that could hold the coins to help alleviate inventory clutter. In fact it would be really cool to steal a coin purse from other NPC's. Since existing code on storage sacks exists could it be integrated to recognize that your coins are in a "storage sack"? Thanks for the great mod.

*Edited spelling and clarification of my entry. Sorry it was late my time when I posted. I have a bad case of "tired eyes".

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:21 pm

I made this resource (see link below) hoping a mod like yours would be made. I hope you consider using it.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23615

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:35 am

I made this resource (see link below) hoping a mod like yours would be made. I hope you consider using it.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23615

That's actually pretty cool. I hope this gets in the mod.

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:27 am

While I personally do not care for paper money. The images are really very good. I hope the furniture can be used!

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:17 pm

I just tried the mod and did a quick shake down on its functions. First off I run 1.2.0416 no SI installed lots of mods apprx. 165. I loaded late in the order just before my bashed patch. I am using the CTD Fix 3 and no problems were noted. So far so it seems the SI code is cleanly seperated from what I have seen. I use the mod Storage Sacks so I added a new sack and called it "Coin Purse" I could easily transfer coins in and out with no inconsistiencies noted. However when I talked to a "Money Changer" (err. teller, I agree please change the name for immersion reasons). The coins in the "coin purse" were not identified so the mod identified my coin talley was not correct and promptly replaced just the missing coins but also doubled the total amount of gold leaving an incoirrect balance. I assume this is correct as you probably did not write code to track inventory in Storage Sacks. However it is nice to know if the talley is off it corrects the coins automatically. It would be very nice if there was a way to add a "coin purse" that could hold the coins to help alleviate inventory clutter. In fact it would be really cool to steal a coin purse from other NPC's. Since existing code on storage sacks exists could it be integrated to recognize that your coins are in a "storage sack"? Thanks for the great mod.

*Edited spelling and clarification of my entry. Sorry it was late my time when I posted. I have a bad case of "tired eyes".

Glad that there's no crashes

Well, Teller is actually an anarchism anyway (since the word didn't come about until circa 15th Century; and Oblivion is a psuedo-Roman/medieval world), so I'll look into that.

Yes, there will be problems with money being put into some kind of sacks. As you guessed, I've not got any code to check for places the Player could have stored their money (I don't even know if that would be possible without linking into the Mod directly...?). It may be possible to make a 'Coin Purse', though I am not sure yet... As it stands, however, I am not sure WHY there would be a problem. If possible, would you be able to explain in a bit more detail, please?

As I understand it this happened (using 'made-up values):
1. You had 100 Gold
2. You put 50 Gold into a sack
3. Your Gold Count correctly decreased by 50-gold
4. You spoke to a Teller
5. You were given back 50-coins.
6. You now have 100 coins on your person, and 50-coins in a sack.

If so, would you please be able to run a small test for me? Note how much money you have, put some into a sack, and then return to general game play; after about 30-seconds, check how much Gold you have. My immediate thought is that the Coin script is not running correctly during Menu Mode (so it is not detecting the Coins moving into another sack), but that obviously would cause many more issues, which you do not seem to have met. Thanks for the info

Meo,
I like the resources

I have to agree with Grumbul on being against Paper Money (there was a discussion of this in one of the earlier threads, with regards to 'reality within the timeline'), but the Bank Furniture is definitely something I would consider using; it probably won't be right away, but if/when I get to making the local branches, I'll definitely consider your work

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:24 am

Glad that there's no crashes

Well, Teller is actually an anarchism anyway (since the word didn't come about until circa 15th Century; and Oblivion is a psuedo-Roman/medieval world), so I'll look into that.

Yes, there will be problems with money being put into some kind of sacks. As you guessed, I've not got any code to check for places the Player could have stored their money (I don't even know if that would be possible without linking into the Mod directly...?). It may be possible to make a 'Coin Purse', though I am not sure yet... As it stands, however, I am not sure WHY there would be a problem. If possible, would you be able to explain in a bit more detail, please?

As I understand it this happened (using 'made-up values):
1. You had 100 Gold
2. You put 50 Gold into a sack
3. Your Gold Count correctly decreased by 50-gold
4. You spoke to a Teller
5. You were given back 50-coins.
6. You now have 100 coins on your person, and 50-coins in a sack.

If so, would you please be able to run a small test for me? Note how much money you have, put some into a sack, and then return to general game play; after about 30-seconds, check how much Gold you have. My immediate thought is that the Coin script is not running correctly during Menu Mode (so it is not detecting the Coins moving into another sack), but that obviously would cause many more issues, which you do not seem to have met. Thanks for the info

You have stated exactly what happed, except I has 2833 Gold on me at the time (new game). It didn't change after the 30 seconds or so or even a few minutes. However on reload my Gold is fluctuating wildly into tens of thousands. Every time I open my inventory it increases. Even with no gold in the sack.

Meo,
I like the resources

I have to agree with Grumbul on being against Paper Money (there was a discussion of this in one of the earlier threads, with regards to 'reality within the timeline'), but the Bank Furniture is definitely something I would consider using; it probably won't be right away, but if/when I get to making the local branches, I'll definitely consider your work

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:04 pm

Some details of minor tweaks I've done with plans for the next release (1.1 (since 'CTD Fixes' were separate files in my mind)):

- Church Donation Boxes
Each Cathedral has a Donations Box, where you can donate Money to the Church of your choice. If you are sneaking, you can attempt to pick the lock and steal the money inside; I'm thinking of adding some kind of reward for when you donate enough (like in 'Fable'), but haven't really decided what it should be yet. I don't want to go for a weapon or anything like that, since there are enough Mods that cover that (and this is an 'economy' mod), but I DO want it to be something worth having. Right now, all Churches count the same, but I may change that later so each God has their own Donation list (and possibly their own items, similar to the Daedric Princes)
Edit: Well, I went ahead and divied them up anyway; each God has their own 'Donations Fund' you pay into in their Cathedral. There isn't one for Kynareth though (since there's no Cathedral of Kynareth...

). Right now, all you get is 'Patron' of a God status in your Factions Menu for donating 1,000 Gold.

- IC Gold Fix
IC Merchants should no longer have super-high Gold. They should only get around 10-15,000 Gold instead of the 25-30,000 they were getting.

- Still looking for a suitable name for the Tellers.

@Grumbul
I think it cut off your comment; if you could re-post I'd be grateful

» Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:39 pm

You have stated exactly what happed, except I has 2833 Gold on me at the time (new game). It didn't change after the 30 seconds or so or even a few minutes. However on reload my Gold is fluctuating wildly into tens of thousands. Every time I open my inventory it increases. Even with no gold in the sack.