Cyrodiil in Oblivion : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:45 am

Funny you should say that, when the entire thread is about Oblivion definitely NOT being Morrowind 2.

We all have our opinions.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:19 pm

We all have our opinions.

Well if we're at that kind of impasse already, don't bother with the slogans.

» Sat May 28, 2011 12:04 am

Well if we're at that kind of impasse already, don't bother with the slogans.

Impasse?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:50 am

The impasse of subjective A vs subjective B, a bloody war of attrition won only when one side gives up or gets banned.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:46 am

; - ) That is what I am looking for, and I think I will be able to sort it out for what I need.

So AIM AND FIRE!

Have you seen the way we swarm around thread about daedra and Vehk? Those threads are locked at "Azura+Hircine" and "Vehk's muatra"

If your aiming for Lore-geek madness, you'd best open the other sides to the box as well

(Yes, I have the urge to jump into random threads, only reading the first 2 posts and severing the conversation)

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:19 pm

Maybe I'm just repeating myself, but if Beth would give Tedders and MK free reign on the next game, I would buy 30 copies of the [censored] thing just so the company wouldn't worry so much about the financial aspect of it.

(although I'm sure 30 copies more or less in sales won't make a big difference, but you get what I'm saying, no?)
___TWM

id take tedders prefrably over Kirkblade. i agree wit my old friend- to much of his stuff mens a whol e bottl e of aspprin down th drain.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:59 am

I'm with the notion that Oblivion changed Lore, not ruined it...albeit, in a negative fashion.

Everyone needs to come to terms with the fact that Oblivion is a game, and marketed as such...

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:35 am

Everyone needs to come to terms with the fact that Oblivion is a game, and marketed as such...

And that makes it ok for it to be mediocre in it's presentation?

» Sat May 28, 2011 4:15 am

I'm with the notion that Oblivion changed Lore, not ruined it...albeit, in a negative fashion.

Everyone needs to come to terms with the fact that Oblivion is a game, and marketed as such...

On statement 1: Morrowind changed Lore, not ruined it by taking what was there and fleshing it out. Vvardenfell is ashes before the game, but when it came out it's mostly ashes with a few fertile areas along the coasts. Oblivion took what was there, ignored it completely and inserted Gondor. That's changing lore and ruining it.

2: Morrowind and daggerfall were games and marketed as such, how come they're "Great" games and Oblivion is a 'Play through it once and leave it because it was just OK" game? DF and MW were socially relevant and deep, and were marketed as games, Oblivion was fantasy cliches with no relevance or philosophy and was marketed as a agame. You see where I'm going with this?

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:09 am

I'm with the notion that Oblivion changed Lore, not ruined it...albeit, in a negative fashion.

Everyone needs to come to terms with the fact that Oblivion is a game, and marketed as such...

I didn't want to get involved, but I have to say that nothing is an excuse for mediocrity. Morrowind, Daggerfall are both games. Heck, Half-Life 2 is a FPS game and it managed to flesh out better lore, story and culture than Oblivion, a RPG. A movie doesn't have to have good story, characters or settings, but a great movie does. The same applies to a game.

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:24 am

I didn't want to get involved, but I have to say that nothing is an excuse for mediocrity. Morrowind, Daggerfall are both games. Heck, Half-Life 2 is a FPS game and it managed to flesh out better lore, story and culture than Oblivion, a RPG. A movie doesn't have to have good story, characters or settings, but a great movie does. The same applies to a game.

And both need to be stories with things built around it, not the other way around, which is how games end up having huge followings, and extreme fan dedication. Once again, immersion and story can make a decent game great, and a good game very bland.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:29 am

And that makes it ok for it to be mediocre in it's presentation?

It is when the game boosts sales of the Xbox 360, and makes the company thousands, if not millions of dollars, and provides a new fan base to work with.

Beth wanted to sell a game, not a cult classic, and not a Morrowind 2. End of story.

They changed a lot of information, a lot of Lore, to better suit a new market. Yeah its horrible, but thats the truth.

And the truth hurts.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:14 am

And the truth hurts.

Right now you are arguing in favor for everything that is good for Bethesda, contrary to your own best interest as a customer. As such you can only be classified as a fan boy because you seem to have idolized Bethesda into a position where the company is more important then you.

So which part of the truth justifies the mediocrity to us as the customers?

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:07 am

it is my hope that now that bethesda is filthy stinkin' ritch off a mediocre hack and slash they can use that money to make us a game worthy of the TES title.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:16 am

Hear! Hear!

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:12 am

it is my hope that now that bethesda is filthy stinkin' ritch off a mediocre hack and slash they can use that money to make us a game worthy of the TES title.

Mediocre?! You've obviously been playing far too much Morrowind.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:41 pm

Mediocre?! You've obviously been playing far too much Morrowind.

So you agree that Oblivion is mediocre by comparison?

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:14 pm

So you agree that Oblivion is mediocre by comparison?

No, I'm merely acknowledging that you guys believe that Oblivion is mediocre by comparison. But it's still a very poor frame of reference of how good or poor TES IV is.

» Sat May 28, 2011 8:38 am

Yes. It's a very good hack and slash, even if the setting and plot is rather insipid.

» Fri May 27, 2011 6:03 pm

No, I'm merely acknowledging that you guys believe that Oblivion is mediocre by comparison. But it's still a very poor frame of reference of how good or poor TES IV is.

So we shouldn't judge ES games based on other ES games but on... reviewers? That's all I can think of, based on some of your earlier posts.

For the record, I had just as much fun in Oblivion as Morrowind.

» Fri May 27, 2011 8:37 pm

So we shouldn't judge ES games based on other ES games but on... reviewers? That's all I can think of, based on some of your earlier posts.

For the record, I had just as much fun in Oblivion as Morrowind.

I'm not even talking about reviewers in this case, I'm talking about a good frame of reference to judge how "good" games are. For example, if all games were judged by Morrowind's standards, most games would be considered painful and unplayable, and only a few would be any good at all.

I'm not making a claim to what is a good frame of reference to what a good game is, but there's one out there.

» Fri May 27, 2011 11:09 pm

I'm not even talking about reviewers in this case, I'm talking about a good frame of reference to judge how "good" games are. For example, if all games were judged by Morrowind's standards, most games would be considered painful and unplayable, and only a few would be any good at all.

I'm not making a claim to what is a good frame of reference to what a good game is, but there's one out there.

Not sure I follow. You say there is a game out there we should judge Oblivion by, and it's not the predecessor?

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:28 am

Not sure I follow. You say there is a game out there we should judge Oblivion by, and it's not the predecessor?

I think he's saying that as far as RPGs go, it was a solid game. Hence the reviews. And hey, I'd agree. It was a fun enough game to play. Not perfect. It had its flaws. But so did Morrowind.

Still, the lore forum isn't going to care how fun the game is to play as opposed to the depth of the setting. Especially since, being fans of the setting, any enjoyment of the game as merely a game is going to be offset by our dissatisfaction with the setting.

No one here cares about whether it succeeded as a game. And it doesn't matter to this topic or forum anyway.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:23 am

Still, the lore forum isn't going to care how fun the game is to play as opposed to the depth of the setting. Especially since, being fans of the setting, any enjoyment of the game as merely a game is going to be offset by our dissatisfaction with the setting.

I so got the best of both worlds. Here's to the matrix and you should all be so jealous.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:42 am

Not sure I follow. You say there is a game out there we should judge Oblivion by, and it's not the predecessor?

Not a particular game, but by a set of parameters. For example, games are usually reviewed based on graphics, sound, playability, entertainment, etc. I'm not saying that those are the best parameters, but Oblivion is usually considered exceptional compared to most of the games out there. To be honest, I don't know what the "neutral" frame of reference for a game would be.