I just think it's ridiculous for people to tell Bethesda that they are wrong on the game they made. I suppose these people still believe that Summerset Isles should be spelled "Summurset Isles" just because it was that way in Arena

The change of Cyrodill between Arena and Oblivion was far to drastic. Hell it practically went from Aztec-era Peru to medieval England.

Yes, and without even stopping by at Imperial Rome. I believe Cyrodiil should be somewhere between the Chinese Empire and the Aztec Empire, with maybe a few Roman influences.

That is the most hilarious game review I've ever seen, yet it's also true.

EDIT: Oh, and I am one of the people that still tends to spell it "Sumurset Isles". Summerset Isles sounds as silly as Seas of Oblivion. Wait, what?

I don't know what "wrong on the game they made" means, but we're not telling Bethesda anything. We're telling each other how our expectations of a deep, imaginative TES game were crushed under the jackbooted heel of mediocrity. Bethesda can make any game they wish, but that doesn't mean we need to bend over if they decide to ignore some of the reasons we liked their last game in the first place. Still, more fool us for continuing to buy their products.

Our criticism isn't going to be relevant to everybody. Most people don't care for the lore. But we do. And we're in the lore forum, so we'll [censored] and moan all we like.


Your attempt to make other people look silly goes awry. You trip backwards and land on your [censored]. Go back three places and lose a turn. In the mean time, learn the purpose of criticism, considering you're using it like a flaccid member in a steamy porm scene by criticising people who'd dare criticise a game.

And Vvardenfel was supposed to be bigger too. And Arena's Tamriel was way too small when compared to the maps. I guess Daggerfall was the only game that got size right huh?

We all saw the price that was paid for that- boring and lifeless towns and reused graphics. That whole size argument isn't really valid. If they did it right, 16 square miles would have been fine.




Yeah Mara



Oh God no. I thought Oblivion safely removed Redguard's influence from TES. Redguard was a horrible "game" and everything it introduced just made me cringe.



Why not? summerset is a country in New Jersey, its not a good name for a fantasy setting.

All of you are forgetting Shivering Isles, really. As much as Oblivion was a disappointment SI was amazing. That's still part of the Oblivion package too, and has to be factored in.

If you don't get it, you probably shouldn't post. Just some helpful advice.


I have absolutely nothing against Mara but I'm curious, why single her out? Or is this a different way of saying "Not MK".


I still think Redguard was a good game. The sword fighting was a bit difficult at first but all in all I think it's a good action/adventure game.

What influences are these? I have never had the chance to play Redguard.

I'm not using Morrowind's standards, persoanolly. I'm using the standards of the TES seiries as a whole pre-Oblivion. I judge a game based on plot, social relevance, depth, background, entertainment (usually influenced by those), gameplay, sound, and misc. Oblivion got some good points for entertainment, gameplay, and sound with a few misc things thrown in. For any old game, that'd be enough. But there are some sieries I hold to a higher standard, especially on certain points. I expect an ES game to be a cut abouve the rest in all categories because it's predecessors were so much better than the competition. when Oblivion was an "average game" instead of a "phenominal game," it didn't hit the standards TES as a whole is meant to be held to.



I agree with the first two points for this: As fun as the character creation was, as relevant as it's politics were, ans deep as it's plot and lore were, I hate to feel like I "have" to use fast travel. The same mushroom and tree for miles makes you feel that way. (Another problem with Oblivion is that, yes it's optional but unless you're really anol there isn't much reason not to use Fast Travel).

I can't remember which one was Mara. Links to some stuff please?

And I did forget SI. It did bring back some staples of TES's rediculously high standards: Interesting landscapes as opposed to the forests by the Best Western near Manchester, NH, morally ambiguous characters which were painfully absent from vanilla Oblivion, the struggle between two opossing forces that were NOT black and white good/evil stuff, but Total Madness to Total Sanity, creativity to plainess. And while you are on one side, it isn't pushed as the absolute right choice.

So we can give them credit and give ourselves hope for the future on SI, but this is really about Cyrodiil and it's lack of lorew accuracy in Oblivion.

Also, Mortazo, I think some of the stuff in Redguard was okay. The Dwemer in Hammerfell, the fact that even Tiber Septim, the undefeatable Nordic warlord, was defeatable. Sure, I may not have played through it and only know what I've read, but some things in it seem good enough.

i haven't played morrowind in *years*. Oblivion is a pretty good game, but i didnt enjoy it as much as i did other games (not only morrowind). if anything, morrowind was a mediocre game. fighting was a pain in the ass, animation svcked, yada yada. but it was a great world, and it drew you in and made you forget the flaws. i didnt notice that characters walked as if they had just crapped their pants and that everyone had the same line of dialogue because i was too enthralled by the exotic yet realistic landscape and the culture of the world. in oblivion on the other hand i notice every floater due to [censored] application of havok and every repeating line sticks out like a sore thumb because it adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay. so you saw a mudcrab the other day, well, guess what: i dont give a [censored]!

lets discus minutiae. Morrowind had tapestries for every constellation and their use was restricted mainly to scholarly and imperial locations. oblivion gave us one. Morrowind had enigmatic frescos of the Triunes and Veloth guiding his peoples. in oblivion we have generic stain-glass windows and statues that add nothing to the lore (Morihaus in Arena raiment? please). in morrowind we had Ashlander and Great House clothing in addition to the value based classes. in oblivion we have the generic 3. want me to go on?

Morrowind excreted culture and lore at every step, wheather you were aware of it or not. Oblivion gives us generic landscapes and generic cities and generic culture (if any at all). good gameplay and great graphics may make it a good game, but they dont make it a good world.

and we dont care about oblivion the game.

And, what's wrong with that?

Hell, to gain an idea of what Oblivion is missing I went back to Daggerfall and Morrowind.

For starters, the Colovian Fur Helm (And Armor.)

You could find it in TES III: Morrowind, right at the start.

Wouldn't one assume that going to Cyrodiil - Hell, straight to the heart of Colovia - you would be able to find such armor?

The jungles/forests just aren't thick enough. When you head to the Cyrodiil/Elseweyr Border, you should expect to look out across a vast desert. The Black Marsh border? Where are the swamps? The Valenwood border. Where the hell are the massive trees? Looking from a high place near any of these borders reveals the surrounding landscapes to look very much like Cyrodiil.

That upset me in Oblivion. I wanted a glimpse of the other provinces, but was greeted with the same landscape as I was currently standing in.

Where are the rapids? White water... Where are the towers of old? Where are the hidden tombs, ancient battlegrounds? Run down, forgotten settlements from a time long past?

Yes, Oblivion is an amazing game, as far as games go. No, it does not match the hype if you're truely going in depth with the lore and landscapes of the land (Pocket Guide to the Empire told much about the land, though after reading through it, Cyrodiil disappoints.)

That's my two-septims.

--Odinnis.

In Oblivion it'd just be called the Fur helm. And it was given a much better design.

Nothing. You can never play too much Morrowind/Daggerfall.

Oblivion is a cut above the rest in comparison to other games of its time. But when compared to the classic RPG's (Oblivion claims to be an RPG, afterall, which is also a HUGE reason why I critique it like I do. If you say it's an RPG, I'll judge it like one.) it falls flat on its ass and cries for mommy. It's gameplay was...terrible. Now, it really improved lots of gameplay mechanics, but then it totally raqes the base so much that the rest gets messed up. Mainly the leveling system for enemies and loot. You will NEVER find "OMFGBBQAWESOME" loot at low levels, no matter which dungeon you go in (with the exception of Umbra). Not only that, but no matter what dungeon you go it, they never change the difficulty up (like they did in Morrowind).
But enough about gameplay, because we all know Morrowind definitely wasn't the master of that area. I loved Morrowind so much because of its setting and story. A tapestry of history and world woven together so well, that I could totally ignore gameplay flaws. Oblivion's setting was uninspired, characters were dull, and the some of the lore didn't even explain itself. Traven never even says why he kills himself!

I played Oblivion for 6 months. I played Morrowind for 3 years.

Either you misunderstand me or you're just using my post for a tangent. I'll choose the latter.

Ramara hangs out in Oblivion General a lot, helping noobs with character builds. I get the feeling that she's been away from Tamriellic lore a lot longer than Todd Howard has.


Crimson Paladin: That's so lame.

Lycan Nerev: You judge videogames by social relevance? :blink:

Vox populi baby.

Not as lame as the Morrowind Colovian Fur Helm.

Well, of course not. Although hilarity mitigates svckage.

not really. Uzbeks inspir e me to laugh at them, but....

Wow, that sums up many of my problems with Oblivion. If one doesn't understand why some of us don't like it, that really should make it clear for you.

What is it with people not grasping the full point of my post. Its enough to make me want to stop posting here, because all you people seem to do is see what you want to see. I am in no way, shape, or form a fan-boy. I enjoy playing Oblivion, and I enjoyed playing Morrowind for years and years before that.

As a customer, I was quite pleased with Oblivion. Yes, after months if not years of playing it, it has its fair share of quirks, glitches, and lore changing aspects. It lacks plot? It lacks detail? All because it wasn't how you expected it to be? No, you're the type of fan boy who expected a Morrowind 2, and when everything wasn't to your exact specifications, you felt you had been cheated, and needed to blame the company because they didn't produce a game you particularly enjoyed, even though its sold millions, and made Bethesda more revenue then Morrowind ever did.

I'm not sure if you have some sort of mental deficiency or not, because I already stated it was NOT in their best interests, or OURS, as the CUSTOMER, and FANS, and GAMERS, for them to "completely" change everything for a new market, as it did in fact, take away from some of the aspects of Morrowind we all came to love. Personally, I'm happy Cyrodiil isn't some massive jungle with rain forests and what not. I'm happy with the landscape, and I enjoy the gameplay far more than Morrowind. Now that makes me a fan boy because I don't sit around and pick out every horrid detail that comes to mind, and rant and complain about how Bethesda is a horrible company? Right.

No, the company is not more important to me, than myself as a customer. I was, and am still quite displeased at how many positive aspects from Morrowind, they kept out of Oblivion. I can only hope to god, that years and years from now, when TES V is finally in development, that they take a grand look at how many customers they DID lose from Morrowind to Oblivion, and avoid the same game changing aspects that did so.

So which part of the truth justifies it? The truth doesn't justify anything, and I never said it did if you were paying attention to anything I said in my post. All I said was the truth hurts, which you've seemed to warp into your own argument to call me a fan boy. Right, you go ahead and do that, and I'll enjoy a game that had kept my attention for a long while now.

Oh, and if you haven't realized it yet, I'm not happy with how many things they changed, and let me reiterate, that I hope they don't make the same mistake again.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25589027@N03/2527773382/

As been said before, you're posting in the Lore forums. When arguing about Oblivion here, you're arguing about how well Oblivion fit in with established, and new, lore. Nothing else. No gameplay, no graphics. Lore.

Although I didn't like Oblivion, I have to agree with much of what you said. However, the problem as I see it is that they took what made post-Arena TES good and took it out. Daggerfall, Redgaurd, Battlespire and Morrowind all concentrated on good plot, good lore, good characters and good setting. For most of the fans, this made up for the atrocious gameplay and glitches that plagued all their games. Then, for Oblivion, they had a bad plot, bad lore, bad characters and a bad setting but inserted well-made user-friendly gameplay. This disappointed many of the existing fans who were not expecting a Morrowind 2, but a TES game that encapsulated everything TES had stood for up to this point, and maybe some actually decent gameplay for once. I would have probably accepted a game more resembling GTA then a RPG better than Oblivion if it had kept the good writing aspect of it. And that is why I like SI. It is what I was expecting from vanilla Oblivion.

Indeed, but tell that to the people who keep arguing about how horrible all of that was, and why I'm countering it, in the Lore Forum.

For the record, I agree with everyone here, that Oblivion did not meet expectations. Established Lore was changed in a negative fashion, and many game play aspects were left behind from Morrowind.

I guess I'm just a right bastard for enjoying it still to this day, even with all its flaws.