For the sake of discussion, why not just agree? There's nothing to refute that number, if memory serves.

There's little consideration for reality, in other aspects of lore, so why consider reality's climate zones?

Oh come on, an expansion can't redeem a game for one of its biggest and most obvious flaws.

About the scale thing;

Mauretania is 1 million sq kilometers according to Wikipedia.

Using http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Proweler/Lore/distancemeasured.jpg (green line PGE, red and blue daggerfall as measured in game) for a quick guestimate; Cyrodiil is 1 millision sq miles.

So yes, Tamriel is small, but not that small. Somewhat smaller then the West Europe.

The SI expansion is an integral part of TES IV, not something separate. And the "flaw" angle is debatable.

Really? Try going to the store and demanding that you get SI for free because you already have the main game and it is "an integral part" of the latter.

Thanks for all the comments !

Yeah. I used a fan made map before. It was the one that had everything on it.

Aww, come on. You were in the thread when I made the measurements before. Granted, it was with a different map. I don't like the map you used there because it skews Morrowind to seem gigantic, but alright. I just made the measurements based on that. Here are the measurements made on that map in square miles.

Cyrodiil = 166,375
Elsweyr = 51,523
Valenwood = 56,524
Black Marsh = 91,156
Morrowind = 147,863
Solstheim = 6,757
Skyrim = 95,547
Summerset Isles = 41,670
High Rock = 55,218
Hammerfell = 104,815

So if I didn't miss a number or something, Tamriel = 817,388. That's 2,117,034 sq km. Around the size of Saudi Arabia.


I don't prefer that measurement though, because the pocket guide information which we're using directly says the peak:
Meaning Tamriel overall is 675,390 sq miles. That's 1,749,260 sq kilometers. That is around the size of Libia.

Cyrodiil = 137,382
Elsweyr = 42,577
Valenwood = 46,713
Black Marsh = 75,327
Morrowind = 122,173
Solstheim = 5,581
Skyrim = 78,950
Summerset Isles = 34,435
High Rock = 45,626
Hammerfell = 86,626

I know it was an estimate and all you made, but based on the Cyrodiil size you guessed, you'll need to divide by 6, or eight if you take the smaller route.

Nice work. it seems very accurate.

Thanks! Though I'd prefer if the actual size of Tamriel was larger.


Also on that map measuring from the base of Dagoth Ur:

Imperial City Island = 2,762 sq. miles
Stros M'kai = 382 sq. miles

If it was something separate, it'd be called "Games of the Year Edition".

It's something different. Was SI awarded Game of the Year, or did that go to Oblivion? The "Game of the Year" title is to honor Oblivion. If it wasn't seperate, I wouldn't need to buy them seperatly/in a box set.

The award came before SI improved TES IV of course. No need to deride the game for something that the makers addressed and remedied later down the road

Oh, and I think that both Cyrodiil and Morrowind both have a noticeable flaw in their landscapes; a lack of convincing cliffs, valleys, and other interesting geographical features aside from foyadae and mountains. They could take a page from a game like Gothic 3, it'd really improve things if you ask me.

Of course Morrowind has flaws. Why do people always bring that up, as if I said otherwise?

It still doesn't change the fact that SI doesn't redeem a whole game's world of being far too uninteresting.

Anyway, this is supposed to be a lore discussion. We should stop this.

@Shades,

I'm not sure I follow. You didn't provide a reference for your first comparison to Mauritania, so I assumed you had the sq miles and sq kilometres confused. Still have a link to that thread?

An other thing I don't quite get is this. First you use the Oblivion map of Tamriel and get to 800k sq miles, then you get to a much lower number using which map?

Anyway comes to mind though that we don't have a good map of Tamriel and so we can't actually talk about an exact number, but rather some range between one and half a million sq miles.

@The integral nitpicking,

:rolleyes:

Nah, it was from longer than a year ago. It was on this forum though, and I remember you told me at the time that I had placed Almalexia farther north than it actually was, which made the empire larger and I was disappointed that it ended up being the size of Mauritania.

When scaling the map, changing the distance between Almalexia and Dagoth Ur makes empire wide square mileage changes. For the first numbers, I made the green line shown on the map to be 250 miles. For the smaller number, the 250 miles were between the peak of Dagoth Ur and the same measuring point in Almalexia, the difference between them being the size of the base.

The scaling was done in autocad, so I imported the jpeg of the map into the program, drew a 250 mile line over the top of the green line, and scaled the map up until the lines were the same length. Then I traced every province separately for the numbers.

True.

Ah like that. I'd totally forgotten.

Good that's cleared up.

Has any attempt been made to scale Tamriel to, say, the longitude/latitude lines presented on the map of http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/redguard_map.jpg? The http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/gallery_files/tamriel_westmap.jpg is also a candidate for this sort of thing.

They're not good without an actual measure of distance, without they're just x out of 360 degrees on a sphere of in determined size.

Nice argument...

On the other hand, matching the maps would let one go the other way in order to estimate the radius of Nirn.

@Crimson Paladin I don't get how Gothic 3 looks good. It looks worse than Oblivion. And the landscape is all flat in the background.

@Shades I think it boils down to the fact that while we think about how exactly big Tamriel is, Bethesda doesn't really care as they're focused on making the game and making sure expenses don't exceed income. Of course the Daggerfall game isn't going to match up with the map you made http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Proweler/Lore/distancemeasured.jpg. After all, it's only a computer game, it's not a perfectly crafted world. And I'm willing to bet that they're map will change for the next game and make the square miles of the province different from all the other past games.

Sometimes I think Bethesda does it on purpose because they like to see us argue back and forth about it. Why I bet if you actually sat down with the very guy or girl that made those official maps, they'd say something like "oh it's just a drawing. Don't take it too literally."

Approximately half the circumference of Earth giver or take 25%, that is about equal to Mars.

I wonder if that would explain the weak gravity (compared to earth's) in TES IV. And how people can carry so much weight.

no it doesn't. they are carrying more mass than would way that amount on earth, but still are carrying several hundred pounds of [censored].

If the gravity were weaker the people would be proportionally weaker too...they'd be able to carry less, not more.