You say " To mortals, his past actions may come off as "evil"" That is my question. Read my original post I say mortal in there. From our point of view does that make the action she took and the role she played evil?

You can complain about boredom, but what about the aedra? They do their job, because they think that makes sense. And they care about mortals. I think both aedra and daedra dont do things because they like it or whatever, but because it's their sphere, their self. What would for example Destruction (capital letter) be without destruction (lower case)? Maybe their avatars/souls/whatever may think its fun but they have to, probably. Why doesnt sheogorath suddenly say: quite boring this madness, why wouldn't I swap spots with my neighbour azura? Doing only one thing like destroying or making conflicts gets boring after some time, doesnt it?
I think therefore daedra are not evil, but are just themselves and nothing could be changed about that. If I would be a daedroth I'd also laugh at mortals who say: "you are bad, please stop these things!" And again, good and evil are relative that way

I'd reckon they're weaseling (yet) again The Psijic Order are apologist for Merish ancestor worship and are actually talking about the Aedra.



That still depends on what the Daedra are. Concious, moral actors or ultimately forces of nature. Or even worse, having a divine nature and as such being sources of absolute moral judgement.

The Empire puts them down as acceptable blasphemes. Suggesting it is polite to heed them and unwise to ignore them.

Though you're talking about Azura. You might want to look at http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=966518&hl=azura&st=0.

The Aedra can't be lumped in with anything since they are more concept/workings of the mortal world, then actual being (unlike the Daedra who have actual form from time to time). You wouldn't call the air evil now would you?

Somebody will cry "Wulf" before this is over...

And that's the point: do the daedra have 'souls' that can make moral decisions or do they just do what is their sphere? Where creation exists, destruction must also exist. So you must look at it as a necessity: is it better that i.e.creation and destruction do exist or that they both dont? one cannot exist without its counterpart, so if you like the idea that there is something good you must accept that some things are evil.

They aren't good, they aren't evil. They are just different. Perhaps, to them, mortals are as unaware and unthinking as simple animals are to the level of human cognition. Humans use animals for sport - hunting them, pitting them against each other, training them, using them to manipulate other people or animals; rewarding them for good behavior, punishing bad behavior, observation and experiment. It must be intriguing to observe the trek of a soul, and how its host/person differs from the previous incarnation (for lack of a better word). So blind and close minded as most mortals are, it must be difficult for the Daedra to comprehend mortals' motives. And of course, the greater fear and thrill is when the beast grows powerful enough to be a threat to its handler.

He was the Prince of Madness and he disliked the Tribunal. Whatever the case, I think he did have some part in Almalexia's degrading sanity, be it through planting the seeds or helping along an already power-hungry mind.

<_<

Really now? Hmmm thats very interesting. Do they not know they're mistaken and are talking about the wrong gods? I mean how could they not... right? But if that description is for the Aedra, what do they believe in reguards to the Daedra? Is there any lore on that?

They're apologist on purpose, but what do you mean by the wrong gods? Most Mer holds it that they're descendant from the gods while most man hold it that the gods created them.
The Psijic are no different in this, though they express their views as such that they are not directly recognizable as ancestor worship. I presume they do this to avoid antagonizing the more fanatical elements in the Imperial clergy.

What did I mean about wrong gods? I meant that they say that about the Daedra when you said they're really referring to the Aedra. Which leads me to ask why don't they just say Aedra if that's who they're referring to? The way that passage is phrased makes it look like they were talking about the Daedra.

" I presume they do this to avoid antagonizing the more fanatical elements in the Imperial Clergy"
Yes that makes since.

They say so about both Aedra and Daedra.

Wait so they say "According to the Psijic Order, the Daedra and gods that the common people worship are nothing more than the spirits of our ancestors." And your saying that they are referring to both, but I thought the Altmer didn't claim Daedra as ancestors. I thought it was just the Aedra.

But still it should be y'ffre/ the ehlnofey who are the true ancestors. You cant say, some aldmer are distinct from Mara, others are jhunal's offspring. Probably 'ancestors' isn't meant literally. You should look at the personality of the people rather than at their fathers.

Ah like that. In the strictest sense you're right. Daedra being 'not our ancestors' for the Altmer and 'our stronger and better ancestors' for the Dunmer.

Apparently they don't feel the need to differentiate. They're still both et'Ada and in their monomyth (which carefully avoids Lorkhan) both were created with the creation of Mundus.

Hmmm very interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

Daedra are not evil, we're just mortally misunderstood... as always! :swear:

I just love some necromancy late at night, just because I do what I do :hehe:


Milt Iades

Evil? No. Really big jerks? Yeah.

I disagree. Daedric are not "jerks," "good," or "evil," they're just like mortals, except much more powerful...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say. Think of a child that grows up to be three hundred pounds of pure muscle, and no one ever told him that hitting people was bad. Heck, some of them embody the very things humans call "evil", so they do tend to be stereotypical. Like Dagon, it seems like all he thinks about is destroying stuff, but really deep down he's a nice guy. I hope :blink:

They're not "evil", just very, very bored and self-absorbed.

He actually is. He wants to go back to being the kind leaper demon king, and help everyone leap across the different kalpas. However, he got caught one day, and now has to destroy ALL of Mundus, down to the last itty bitty bit.

Another way I'd put it is they're less immoral and more amoral.

Rather than violating some human concept of morality they simply don't operate within those boundaries at all.

Necromancy should always be conducted late at night, or didn't you know?



I happen to be very civilized and agreeable. I make such stimulating conversation on these boards, don't I? Relatedly, I've been pondering that aphorism a lot lately and have wondered if someone virtuous enough could indeed wield enormous amounts of power without turning evil.

I mean, while this is a bit of a bad example but, Vivec and Ol' Tiber CHIMed and they didn't go on a murderous rampage killing lots of people. But then again, they had the power to do it and then make us forget about it totally... hmmm.

I agree that they aren't jerks, but they are nothing like mortals. They are the embodiment of an Idea, for example Dagon just wants to destroy things and Sheo just wants to spread insanity. I'm not sure what Lesser Daedra embody though...