Daedra Worship and God-Hatin'

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 1:37 am

The various Daedric shrine devotees and at least one Dawnie sleeper agent claims that the Aedra are boring, avolatile, powerless, even superfluous when compared to the Daedra.(Mankar: What are Scholarship, Love and Mercy when compared to Fate, Night and Destruction? The gods you worship are trifling shadows of First Causes) who readily manifest and make all manner of radical, cataclysmic changes and Faustian compacts with mortals.

But the creation stories tell us that the Aedra gave up parts of themselves to make Nirn. They are the world. So then would it be fair to counter the claims of Daedristas that every waking moment in the mortal plane is a miracle, a revelation, an encounter with the divine? (at least from the Human perspective, as they see creation as beautiful and claim the Doom Drum as their tutelary spirit).
User avatar
danni Marchant
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:32 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 6:21 am

Well, some people like instant gratification (like that Dawnie), they're like the stuff the daedra give, a dunmer into Velothi teachings and ancestor worship, or want to world to end (Dagonites).
User avatar
Heather beauchamp
 
Posts: 3456
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:05 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 8:48 am

Here is a kind of crappy anology:
Every time you use a light bulb you don't say, "OMG I love Thomas Edison he was the best omgomgomg!"
But when you listen to a song you like you probably do think "Wow [insert name here] is great"
And all in all you give the musician/singer/whatever more love than Thomas Edison, because he or she seems to be doing more

The Aedra made a tremendous sacrifice for Nirn, but with every breath your everday Imperial takes you do not hear "thank Akatosh for Nirn"
But when Sanguine gets a countess and her friends naked, and Sheogorath rains flaming dogs on a town, and Boethia dishes out a sweet sword their followers are exuberant
And even though the Aedra have given and provided way way way way way more, the Daedra provide more consistently new things or experiences on a day to day basis, so their followers claim they do far more.

So yes, if someone told me Nicky Minaj has impacted recent history more than Thomas Edison... I... I don't know what I would do, but they might truly believe that since Nicky Minaj gives them new music constantly, she is giving them more than Thomas Edison, who only gave them the lightbulb (pshht who needs a light bulb) once

And similarly, Elsa God-Hater (was that her name?) may tell you the Aedra do nothing (all they did was create Nirn... pssshht who needs Nirn) but the Daedra do all kinds of stuff so they are therefore better than the Aedra. And then you could say NO, are you kidding! Thomas Edison The Aedra gave us the lightbulb Nirn, all Nicky Minaj the Daedra give us is some irritating music artifacts and crap that are fun at the time but really not nearly as significant when you look at the bigger picture.
User avatar
MatthewJontully
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:33 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 2:33 pm

You might also counter that, while the Aedra are prone to work in a more behind-the-scenes kind of way, they (or the memories of them empowered by belief to become deities in their own right) still guide the most important of actions on Nirn, as we have seen from the various heroes in the games. They tend to work on a bigger picture scale in more subtle ways.
User avatar
Jerry Cox
 
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:21 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 4:48 am

To the OP, I don't think that argument would get you very far. It sounds like a cop-out answer without any hard evidence behind it.
User avatar
bimsy
 
Posts: 3541
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:04 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 1:35 am

To the OP, I don't think that argument would get you very far. It sounds like a cop-out answer without any hard evidence behind it.


Indeed. I'd be like those pamphleteers who tell you you're living in sin/making god angry/making god cry because X scripture says so. But at the moment proselytizing isn't really my concern, so I've taken the liberty of assuming that the creation stories are true. Given that axiom, it becomes a question of who do you like more, the guy who gave you a cool sword or the one who gave you oxygen?
User avatar
I love YOu
 
Posts: 3505
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:05 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 2:22 am

You might also counter that, while the Aedra are prone to work in a more behind-the-scenes kind of way, they (or the memories of them empowered by belief to become deities in their own right) still guide the most important of actions on Nirn, as we have seen from the various heroes in the games. They tend to work on a bigger picture scale in more subtle ways.


Exactly. They know what's best and actually calculate decisions instead of giving in to greed like most Daedra do.
User avatar
Nice one
 
Posts: 3473
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:30 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 12:54 pm

the guy who gave you a cool sword or the one who gave you oxygen?

such a simpler, more concise example than mine...
User avatar
Kay O'Hara
 
Posts: 3366
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:04 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 1:48 pm

such a simpler, more concise example than mine...

I like yours better, you had me picturing the deadra as rock stars.
User avatar
mishionary
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 10:57 am

such a simpler, more concise example than mine...

True. But, yours was awesome! Daedra are greedy bastards, and Aedra are parent-like saints.
User avatar
TRIsha FEnnesse
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:59 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 6:22 pm

True. But, yours was awesome! Daedra are greedy bastards, and Aedra are parent-like saints.


Well I wouldn't call them saints by any means. Remember that they're still searching for a way to break away from the Mundus entirely.
User avatar
Syaza Ramali
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:46 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 8:28 am

But its also possible to see the Aedra as jailors, tricksters. False gods. As the elven do.

My Altmer character will have nothing to with Aedra on principle.
He has chosen to worship Meridia.
User avatar
Johanna Van Drunick
 
Posts: 3437
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:40 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 11:56 am

No, the mer see the aedra as "their ancestors" (which is what aedra means in their tongue). It's the space god, Lorkhan/Shor/Shezarr they call a jailor and trickster, with Mundus being the prison. Following the daedra is almost as bad as following Lorkhan, as they're "Not our anscestors" (that's what daedra means in merish), and worshiping them would be heretical (which the dunmer/Chimer would be).

[censored], the mer believe they came from the aedra, which is why they're pissed because the altmer are not supposed to be mortal, and the only way for the aedra to live is to live through their offspring, who eventually became mortals. At least, this is what the altmer believe, which is why they are extremely hardcoe with height and purity (well, the ones in Summerset Ilse). The guys outside the Ilses are not even really considered true altmer.
User avatar
Kara Payne
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:47 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 5:43 pm

Although there is that rumor in Oblivion about Daedra worship becoming increasingly prevalent in Summerset. There must be some relatively sizable underground movement that rejects ancestor worship. If you take stock in rumors, anyhow.

Aren't there contradictory statements about what "Daedra" actually translates to? I remember either a book or NPC in Morrowind translating the term as "Our better, stronger ancestors."
User avatar
Brian Newman
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:36 pm

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 6:45 am

Aren't there contradictory statements about what "Daedra" actually translates to? I remember either a book or NPC in Morrowind translating the term as "Our better, stronger ancestors."

Nah, it's not from any book. It's from that "redguard forum madness" collection of in-character dev comments. And besides, that'd be the dunmer definition of the word, not the altmer version. Dunmer views would be heretical by the standards of the isles.
User avatar
Benito Martinez
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:33 am

Post » Tue May 03, 2011 5:59 pm

Aren't there contradictory statements about what "Daedra" actually translates to? I remember either a book or NPC in Morrowind translating the term as "Our better, stronger ancestors."
Guess I needed to specify better, but the dunmer/chimer view the daedra also as their ancestors. Like I said, by saying that and worshiping them as such, these views are pretty heretical to the altmer.
User avatar
Mark Hepworth
 
Posts: 3490
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:51 pm


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion