A certain topic in another forum sparked my curiosity for this matter:

Do Daedric princes have a "Fixed" size and shape, or can they change it if they wish?

Because I've seen the statue of Almalexia/Mehrunes Dagon in Mournhold, they are both about the same height and when you meet Almalexia herself she looks, you know, normal size. But in Oblivion, Mehrunes Dagon is one huge m***********.

I think I read somewhere before that Daedric princes can choose what they want to look like and *poof*, but I doubt it.

EDIT: Typo

There's nothing to doubt; Contrast the statue of Azura you see in Oblivion with her Morrowind appearance.

They are gods, right ? So i think they can change shape and maybe even look like a bunny

Any and all Gods in this universe can presumably assume any size and shape they wish. Even Vivec, who was a god with borrowed powers, has a giant form in his Sermons.

Mehrunes Dagon was http://www.imperial-library.info/tsobs/part07image08.jpg in his Battlespire appearance. He's about the size of the Cyclops from those old Sinbad movies or something. Gigantic to be sure but not to the epic Godzilla like proportions from Oblivion. He needed to be much, much bigger for what he was planning during that invasion.

When Dagon attacked Mournhold, he was probably in his giant form. And so were Sotha Sil and Almalexia.

I'm sure they choose to appear as larger than mortals due to the awe inspiring presence it projects. They want mortals to either worship or fear their physical presence - usually - so they appear tall and mighty. Sheogorath and Azura are notable exceptions due to the nature of the player character's interaction with them but I'm sure they could appear huge as well.

I always thought Daedric Princes looked how the people thought of them to look. Or is that something else completely? Or is this just a :facepalm: ?

It is the Aedra who appear how people think of them to look. The Daedra do their own thing.

That's not the point, I wasn't comparing the size of the demigod to her statue. I was comparing her to Mehrunes Dagon, in that statue they look about the same size but when you actually see them one of them is much larger than the other.



Hmm, well if that's the case then do you mean that Daedra lords have certain forms which they can assume anytime they want? if not, then is there a limit to how much they can extend their size? If not, then why didn't Dagon just turn into a much larger form and just stomp the Imperial City with one foot? or is it that his big :spotted owl: just didn't fit into the oblivion gate and he cannot change his form when he's outside his daedric realm? hey I just made a theory.

Too many questions I know

You're overthinking things. He's a deity. His power level is over 9000. All the Daedric princes can dance on the head of a pin.

Whatever the case this was before Almalexia lost access to the Heart, she was probably a lot more powerful back then.


We don't know how he prefers to appear to his servants. It may be that his "normal" form is his Battlespire size, but we don't know for sure. Although I do believe they have limits to their powers, at least when they're on Nirn or otherwise not being empowered by their Realm. I suspect that his giant size in the Imperial City was because he'd be able to cause more destruction, smashing buildings and stepping on soldiers.

And he also got his sorry :spotted owl: handed over to him like what, 3 times?



Of course he'd want to be bigger, as much as possible infact. So I guess that IS his limit. :shrug:

The barriers were also a little blurred, so MD could assume a more powerful form than what was seen in Battlespire.

Wouldn't he have technically been able to manifest larger in Battlespire, though? It was a pocket realm of Oblivion! I mean I realize it was owned and operated by the War College but you'd think his powers in any realm of Oblivion would be greater than on Tamriel, weakened barriers or no.

It was the seducers that caused him to be significantly smaller.

Well I would think that the statue wouldn't be to scale, just a representation. When I read 2920, The Last Year of the First Era I imagined Dagon being fairly giant when he attacked Mournhold, perhaps the same size as his Battlespire appearance or bigger and Almalexia and Sotha Sil being their normal size.

I would assume Dagon could adjust his physical manifestation somewhat.

Aside from the fact that they can choose to appear in different sizes and shapes, it should also be pointed out that the statue in Mournhold doesn't necessarily have to reflect how the fight really looked. After all, it's ultimately a statue, the person who created it probably took some... liberties with authenticy for dramatic effect, not to mention they might not have been around to see the actual fight first hand.

That wasn't what I meant, though I should have used the daggerfall example to be clearer; In Daggerfall, she has a different hairstyle and skin-tone then her Morrowind appearance. I imagine that they can change their size to whatever they want within their realms, though other then that I'm not too sure..

Liberties..right..like the utter exclusion of Sotha Sil and the glorification of Almalexia, who basically got her behind handed to her during the fight.

Poor Sotha Sil.

That can be said about many things we haven't seen with our own eyes. Yet the ridiculous size isn't a reason to dismiss the whole thing. Actually having a giant form is if anything an indication of divinity.

There are notes of the the Elhenofey being titanic in the PGE, the ancestors of the Nords being giants, then there is the the Anumidium and Akhulakhan. Concept art shows http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/vivec_giant-form.jpg and the Temple in Canton has a statue of a giant Vivec stabbing a giant crab thing. (Forgot who it was). Nevermind all the other gigantic statues and the few appearances of Mehrunes and Hircine.

Actually, he's stabbing a Shalk in that statue and appears to be normal human height.

That's odd, I remember him being twice as tall in the statue then my character .

The statue being tall isn't an indication of anything - just because the statue of Galerion in Cheydinhall is large doesn't mean he was twenty feet tall. Sure, they can have giant forms but the statues aren't the basis for that judgement.

I imagine the idea behind http://neon.chem.bg.ac.yu/morrowind/atlas/vivec/temple/outside-2.jpg isn't to indicate that Vivec was a giant, afterall, if Vivec was a giant in that dipiction then that Shalk was like a super-giant, because its already large in comparison to Vivec. I'd actually say the idea behind the statue is missed if Vivec is not normal size as the point is to demonstrate the monstrosity of the Shalk that he's killing, not to demonstrate his own size.

Yeah like Luagar just said, you have to consider that the statue is larger than your character for another reason. There are no Shalks of gigantic size roaming around in the ashlands around Red Mountain in the actual game. There are giant insects in Morrowind lore, true, but that convolutes the argument. The fact is that a Shalk is a large insect, as big as a man, but not gigantic. If we take the scale of the shalks we face in the game, compared to the size of our character and other NPCs, and compare it to the scale represented between Vivec and the shalk in the statue, it's pretty clear that Vivec is meant to be human size in that statue. The statue is big because it's of a very important person, not so much to represent his physical stature. (Although he does have a giant form in the religious canon of Morrowind)

edit:

For that matter, the statues of the two praying saints atop their respective cantons (Olms and Delyn) are also depicted as taller than human stature. Again, this is most likely to represent their importance as historical figures.

One thing that confuses the size argument a bit is the tapestry of Saint Veloth, who is depicted as a giant leading advlt Chimer by the hand as if they were small children. If one considers this prophet was very likely at least part Divine, however, it could have been a literal representation of his scale as a being. Beings such as Veloth and Trinimac probably were actually much taller than normal beings. Umaril is another example of a part-Divine person we actually met in person in a game. While not gigantic he is considerably taller than most mortals.

You just gave your own counterargument, he's big for the sake of that symbolism.

Moving away from statues, the gods' forms are projections designed to play with mortal cognition. They can change their appearances, based on the desired impact of a god's visit (the aptitude for perception of those whom they visit) and the god's aspects, as ascribed by each culture.