Alright, I just spent all day on my old P2 playing a single dungeon in Daggerfall and have completely cleared it and clicked on every wall, torch, skull, bag, box, and anything else in the dungeon I could find, and have discovered that there is another section of the map with bats and werewolves in it that is apparently not connected to the rest of the map! If you jump or climb walls in certain areas you can see through parts of the wall and see tunnels and rooms farther north of every area I have explored, but they don't seem to be connected. Can somebody confirm this?

The dungeon is "Jubithiva's Den" and directions to see the second area that I cannot reach are simple. As soon as you come into the dungeon, turn right and go through the door you're facing. This comes out in a huge room identical to the big one with the skeleton in the first dungeon. Go down the stairs you're at and turn left. Walk across this raised area and then turn left and go up the stairs on the other side and into the room. On the wall to your right is a door leading into a dead-end room. If you face the north wall and jump and/or climb and fall on the north wall of this room, you can see a bunch of tunnels and things that are unreachable. I have even used the cheat to warp around the dungeon in an attempt to get into this area, and all of the warps are in rooms that I have already visited! I can post screenshots if needed. Thanks for the help!

Well, before I start, note that using the [ and ] keys to warp around the dungeon actually should take you to any possible quest item/NPC locations - I'm assuming that's what you used to warp around? If so, if the NPC you're looking for is a monster of some sort, maybe scout around the areas where you warp to?

Anyway, I had a look through the dungeon, and can confirm that that little bit is indeed detached from the main part of the dungeon. However, this is not unique to this dungeon - I have "void rangered" in a few other dungeons where I have found rooms floating in nothingness. This is most likely due to the dungeons having had been randomly generated, and the developers could hardly spare the time to go and check that every single room in every single dungeon was connected.

I've taken some screenies of this little area, if you'd like them:
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1962/scr2bx9.png
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/7499/scr1nc6.png
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/4125/scr0os0.png
But not here.

As Azileron said, the '[' and ']' keys will take you around to all the possible quest locations in that dungeon; those keys take you through all the same locations that the quest generator picks from when it selects a location in that dungeon for the quest target. So even if the quest target is in a disconnected section of the dungeon, the cheat keys will still take you to its location.

One possibility is that you've run out of time for the quest and the quest target has been removed from the dungeon.

If the quest hasn't run out of time and it's still active, my advice would be to cycle through the locations with the '[' and ']' keys again, and check each location carefully in case you've overlooked something. A monster might have wandered off, an object might be in back of or under something, etc. Any possibility you're looking for an item and it might be on a monster you killed but didn't loot?

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I do remember running into one dungeon where my quest target was in a disconnected area of the dungeon: I only found it by using the cheat keys, and then spent hours unsuccessfully trying to find any way to get from one section of the dungeon to the other.

I am supposed to be rescuing a girl from this dungeon. I have killed everything in the dungeon and explored the entire dungeon repeatedly. However, there are bats and a werewolf in the detached portion of the dungeon, which means that the girl could have also been spawned in one of those parts by accident. I have yet to see anything aside from burglars, werewolves, and bats though. No girl, and I don't see any other place she could be. Is it possible to disable collision-detection, maybe with a trainer? I'd love to get into the other area, girl or not.

As the others said, the '[' and ']' keys will take you around to all the possible quest locations in the dungeon. You didn't find the girl: it's because she's not here. I know which quest this is. You have to go out of the dungeon and you will receive a letter as soon as you exit it, telling you what to do next.

I don't really understand how unconnected rooms get generated. Logically speaking, the dungeons are most likeled generated in a "keep sticking stuff on a non terminating hallway till you get a dead end" manner. Are the unconnected segments full of gaps and stuff?

There are four locations, each with three enemies, none with a hostage. I went outside rested for seven hours, then went to Daggerfall to deposit 14000 gold which was weighing me down, then back to the dungeon. All of this took about three days game-time and still no letter. I am doing this mission for a tavern-keeper who says the girl is his cousin. Do I need to go talk to the guy again to get the letter?

The most likely explanation is that there is supposed to be a teleporter to these disconnected areas, and that either the teleporter wasn't created/over written by anoter piece of the dungeon/ just hasn't been found yet.

The other likely explanation is that it's a bug. I know that may be hard for some people to accept, especially when Daggerfall is such a stable and bug free game

Actually over the past 12 or so years, I believe that the game has only crashed out on me three or four times, I've only managed to fall out of the map on a handful of occasions, and it has never locked-up or anything. This is the first quest in that time that I have been unable to complete, which is why I am posting here. I have tried jumping up and down the stairs while crouched in an attempt to get out of the map, to no avail. I have a save before I took the quest, but I guess I don't want to give up on any quest, since I haven't done so yet. How were those screenshots in the post above captured? If there's a way out of the map I'll try it to get over there.

It's probably that the quest is just bugged and didn't spawn the girl or send the letter properly (probably the latter, as letters are often bugged out). I assume you are exploring each room the [ and ] take you to, not just warping, not seeing anything, and warping on. If you warp onto her (which you would), you won't see her until you move back a little.

If you want into the void, Jumping as you ascend/descend stairs is a popular choice. Or, if you find an area with the hexagonal tunnels (where the walls are made of two slants, coming to a point about half way up), you can try running up the wall to the slant and jumping/ducking/etc until you pop out.

But the BEST way, and one I've found to be reliable, is to find an elevator. As the lift is rising toward a passageway, run into the wall toward the passage; you should run right under the floor and fall into the void. Just make sure, of course, that you can levitate or that there is something below you to fall on.

Then as Jormungandr said, the quest could be bugged. You don't need to go back to the guy who sent you on this mission to get the letter... Normally you should get it very soon after you exit the dungeon. Maybe it's not the quest I think it is.

You can also exit the dungeon, then go back in it. As a Daggerfall dungeon is reseted each time you go out, maybe it will fix your problem.

Yeah I know, that's how you make quick cash if you've got time. Say I spend three days on this twenty-seven day quest finding and rescuing the girl. I have the time, so I'll clear the dungeon, go out, go back in, and repeat until I have to take her home. That or until the wagon maxes out.

I am debating loading this dungeon into an old pet project of mine to check it out, if I can find time to get texturing up. I started an online OpenGL engine for Daggerfall years ago but when I drove tractor-trailers for a while (quick cash in the real world) I couldn't work on it, and haven't gone back to it since. If I can pick up on it and load this dungeon into it, it should be easy to ghost around since collisions aren't implemented yet. Maybe then we can see if it is connected somehow.

Oh I remember you. In fact, seeing your pseudonym made me remember that a guy calling himself 'The Great Sephiroth' said a very long time ago he was making a new Daggerfall engine, called DaggerfallGL or something like that. Many people didn't believe that guy at that time, since no screenshots were ever released on his website. It was in 2004 if my memories are good. And finally you're this guy and you're still around here! Maybe this was not a fake after all.

It was before 2004, it was when I still stayed at that crappy apartment in Raleigh, NC. I moved to a new apartment in late 2003 and that was after I had begun work on the engine. In 2005 I started driving a flatbed tractor-trailer for PGT, and stopped working on it. I then moved again and used the cash to go to college and get a second degree (first was IT, this one is IS) and I have just finished getting a two-year IS degree at a community college. I have been working on other projects since then, such as "486 Launcher" for DOSBox using VB .NET 2005, and a 2D side-scroller with a friend in the theme of "Legacy of The Wizard" for the NES.

I dug up the old sources on my big Linux server, and they're in-tact, but I was having a problem reading one of the BSA files. If I can find a solution to the problem, I will be able to start rendering 3D stuff, such as towns and dungeons. After that it's a matter of mimicing the formulas used for stats and all, working out a terrain generator, and we should be able to at least run around in the game in high resolution OpenGL. This does take the back burner though, and I may only get an hour or two per day to work on, weekends aside. Either way I have about six megabytes of code and documentation at this point, which is a decent start.

Great news. Maybe you could help the guys at Dungeon Hack. They are making a new Daggerfall-like game from scratch. Their website is http://dungeonhack.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page and they have a forum where you can talk to the other devs. Actually I'm one of them, but I don't have time at all at the moment.

Well before we get too far off-topic, Dungeon Hack is a copyrighted game of which I somehow wound-up with two copies. It is an old D&D game for DOS. It was randomly generated dungeons, quests, etc every time you played, if I remember correctly. It came in a pack of four games along with Unlimited Adventures and two others. Good game, but you may want to check into that.

I personally don't care to work with others because I am anol about my projects. I am a perfectionist and everything has to be done correctly, right down to the proper formatting of sources, which means two spaces, no tabs. Many people use IDEs that are not configured properly and while the code looks correct in those IDEs, nobody else can view it properly. Besides, I barely have time for DFGL, much less another project.

Well I didn't speak about that Dungeon Hack. And since the one you're reffering too is a very old one, I don't think copyright issues would be the problem here.



You can be a perfectionist and still like to work with others. For the code formatting and the IDE configuration, if the devs do establish rules about that, everyone, the most perfectionists as the lesser ones, should be happy. In fact, I'm a developper (I mean, it's my job) and that's how we work in my company.

But as you say you don't have time, maybe you could share your source code. I'm very interested in seeing it. In fact, Interrupt, the main DH dev, already wrote a Daggerfall dungeon viewer using OGRE. And I'm also waiting for him to release his source code, however he already said he will. You can see the screenshots of his work http://dungeonhack.uesp.net/wiki/Screenshots (at the bottom of the page).

Technically, if the game was ever copyrighted, then it's a problem. A copyright lasts for around 90 years.

I am holding one of the CDs now, and it is copyrighted in 1995 by SSI. SSI was bought by Ubisoft for the Silent Hunter title among others. It also had Mindscape on the label, so they may have some ties to it. I'm not sure how copyrights and titles go, but I just wanted to mention it.

I don't plan on sharing my sources for one big reason. I have developed a working MMO engine and I plan on applying it to DFGL after DFGL is working 100% so that others may play with each other in the Daggerfall world. That is my personal long-time goal with DFGL, multiplayer on the level of say, WoW. I would disable fast-travel and allow users to buy not only houses which are normally for sale, but also the useless ones that state "There is nothing of value in this house". With the large number of towns and houses that would produce, you could have a large number of players on a single server who can own their own properties. Then just throw in all the randomly generated quests and possibly the main storyline, and you have a dated but fun MMO.

Don't take all of that to heart and start hoping though, I have to get it all up and running BEFORE I do this. The project is in 100% object-oriented C++, with the only exception being the stupid Windows main function and window procedure. Of course this allows me to make the program cross-platform to Linux since I'd only have to change that one file or substitute it with a Linux version. That's another long-term goal.

Dibs on Castle Wayrest!

I call Scourg Barrow!!

Uh, I don't believe Castle Wayrest says "This house contains nothing of value". Of course, that would be a freaking awesome easter-egg!

Uh, I don't believe Castle Wayrest says "This house contains nothing of value". Of course, that would be a freaking awesome easter-egg!

Just try and kick me out!

We'll just see how long you can stand listening to my howling friend in your entranceway. You may reconsider!

We'll just see how long you can stand listening to my howling friend in your entranceway. You may reconsider!

He howls only when someone goes by. Ergo, he's a useful doorbell. Creepy, but useful.